H2

I keep hearing that 964s are a horrible investment...then I hear that that there are some great buys "out there" if you get the later ones that were "fixed". My question, which are the "good years/good buys?" I've looked for the bargains on 964s that I keep hearing about but those listing them usually don't say anything to allay my fears so I figure they're all bad that I'm looking at. Am I too cautious? What should I be looking for? Which years are "safe" 964 years? What questions should I be looking at?

H2
Obviously not scared of questionable cars. I own a 928S and it's absolutly great! 147mph in 4th gear and I have 5th gear left! Admittedly maintenance is an issue on an old car like this but I do a lot of it myself. The 928 is probably the most undervalued car on the market...that is, if you want kick-*** performance. But I'm looking for a more modern, and more reliable 911-like car. I'm not afraid of the 964 but I don't want to by a lemon either.

Bill Gregory

According to Bruce Anderson's Market Update column in Excellence magazine, current issue, the 93 964's increased slightly in value from 2003 to 2004.

Regarding years/buys nervousness, there were well documented teething pains with early 964's. If those are addressed or not an issue, then pick your year. A pre-purchase inspection by a knowledgable mechanic should always be done to let you know what you're potentially buying along with any observed warts. This minimizes the chance of buying a lemon.

Jay H

Here's my $.02. I was warned quite a bit before buying my 964 (a '90 C2 manual tran, which by most 'experts' should be the worst 911 ever built). I found a solid, early build C2 and really like it.

The early cars have or could have these major faults:

Cylinder to head leak. Expensive to fix, but not all cars were affected. It does happen, so any car you are looking at should have this easy to spot leak checked for. The 1989 to 1991 model years are the ones most affected. Some cars leak extensively and need major dollars spent to fix them. Other cars only weep slightly and don't need updating. An updated car (with the Porsche approved process of adding head gaskets) should no longer be susceptible to this problem.

Dual Mass Flywheel failure. The original Freudenberg DMF's used on the 1990-1992 (until about May 1992) 964's fail anywhere from 30,000 miles and up on average. If the car you are considering has the original flywheel in it, or does not have any records to support the upgrade to the much more reliable LUK unit, then just budget for this repair. About $2500 or so depending on labor rates. Even a later year, LUK equiped car could have clutch or flywheel issues (just from age or abuse), so while the risk is less with a later year car, there still is risk (as with any manual trans 911). If you can't afford (or budget for) a $2500 clutch/flywheel repair (or any other expensive repair), then a 15-11 year old complex 911 might not be for you.

Dual Distributor Belt issue; Basically a non issue in my book. Buy the $15 vent kit, take the 1/2 hour to install it and don't worry about it. Have the dual distributor belt changed every 5 years or 50,000 miles.

All these problems have reliable and permanant fixes available for them. Money fixes everything.

It would be a shame to pass up a solid, tight, early 964 just because of it's model year. I'll echo what Bill mentions above. Find a nice car first regardless of year, then if you like it and it drives nice, have a PPI done to see if any of the early year issues are present. If it does have issues, either negotiate the price down, budget for their repair costs or just walk away. It's your choice. Just be informed up front and do your homework.

These cars are getting old. It's getting harder and harder to find a nice one... I'd take a very nice '89 C4 over a beat and abused '94 964.

Good Luck,

Jay
90 964

Jacks911

Jay, You have said it all. And since I am in the hunt for another 964 I'll echo your last comment...

"It's getting harder and harder to find a nice one... I'd take a very nice '89 C4 over a beat and abused '94 964." The number of "Showroom Condition" ads has no correlation to the scarcity of good 964s. I have looked at many that have great ad copy and have Cab Tops "that work great" ...manually!
Or the "really clean mechanically" car with a hole warn through the seat and rust covering the trunk floor.
964's are great Porches in my book, the key is finding one that has been cared for and Not hit or abused. And besides the PPI make sure you have someone check for Bondo. Good body repairs & paint can cover a lot that CARFAX will Not uncover.

springer3

I am in year 3 with my 92 C2. It is not my daily driver. I carpool to work, but I have put 12.000 miles on the 964. Mission reliability has been 100%. I did once have to drive home in the heat after the AC belt broke. Repair and maintenance cost are quite low for a car with this level of performance. Factor in low depreciation cost, and I have been driving a Porsche for about the same per mile cost as a newer economy car.

I agree the key is to find one that has documented history backed up by a thorough inspection. Bargain shopping will lead you to an abused or neglected car, and you have a very unhappy and expensive experience trying to get the car back to a good standard.

H2

Great advice! This is what I was looking for!

Thanks,

Harvey

H2

After hearing all the horror stories...it's refreshing to hear there are experienced survivors!

H2

LA964RS

I've got a '94...one of the last ones made. Fantastic w/really never any probs outside of general maint.

Get the car with the best records. If its been serviced and taken care of it will do right by you.

Obviously, look for the upgrades to the distributor and if a reallly early car if its had the P/C updated-fixed.

With the right car you'll get a lot of enjoyment.

BTW...I think the early cars, especially the 89s do feel a heck of a lot lighter. Probably just my imagination, but the do to me.

Jacks911

Hughett, if I where to pick the best year for a Cab, I would again go with the 1991 - but a late build # after the Engine update. Relatively Lower pricing but the really big issue is fixed with the engine and they have a back seat. I like (yes I do) the old flag mirrors too. And with a Tip who cares about DMF issues? Wish I could find one to replace mine.... Boo Hoo!

Marc Shaw

Hughett - having just gone through the buying stage, I can tell you that -- like anything else, the better prepared you are and the more you know the better. For the last 6 months, after I decided I wanted a P-911, I read everything I could get my hands one and spent hours on end trolling the newsgroups (including here) and the 'net to learn everything I could about the different P-911's. Once settled on a 964 (last of classic shape, 4WD so it makes me look like a better [and safer] driver, etc.) I read every buyer's guide I could find as to what to look for....and what to avoid.

Read Adrian's book cover-to-cover, esp. buying chapter. I agree with the more experienced Rennlister's here that there is no bad or good year -- just cars that have been cared for or not. An '90 [corrected - my point is the same] with a replaced DMF and gaskets will be a better buy than a 1992 that has not been cared for.

As has been said before, do the homework, look at and drive alot of cars before buying and take your time....the hunt for the perfect car for you IS part of the fun!

Marc

p.s. Oh, and get records -- it is fascinating to go back through the old records to see what has been done and when.