Jay H

When I researched 964's back in 2000 before I bought mine, I came across a lot of negative opinions on the 964. Even my trusted mechanic stated that I should stay with a 3.2 (I had an '86 at the time) or go to the 993. Experienced salespeople that knew Porsche (only a few) agreed that the 964 had a bad reputation and thought I would be better off with a 993 if I wanted to move up.

It seemed that most all of those opinions were formed from the cylinder to head leak problem and it's looks as compared to the 993. The distributor belt problem was never brought up, nor the DMF. I believe the complexity of the 964 over the 3.2's (nobody was really ready for a complex, used 911 out of warranty) didn't help either. The 993 was still relatively new and not many age and high mileage related problems were surfacing yet. The 993 looked to most to be a very solid car (and it is for the most part).

Back before the internet was really popular, all we had was 'excellence' and Bruce Anderson's writings (to some degree). As Randall stated above, his writings really influenced people at that time (mid to late 90's) and when he wrote that the 964 was the ugly duckling of the 911 world with all it's teething problems, that rep really stuck. I know I took a lot of Bruce's writings as gospel back then. His writings seemed to be the only stuff around that gave opinions (negative and positive) based on experience rather than just being given a page of specifications. Bruce will still write that the early 964's are only worth considering if priced low.

The 964 costs more to run due to the complexity of the car in most cases, but, the trade off is that you get a tangible increase in hp and torque. I do think that the initial price gap and maintenance costs between the 993 and 964 will decrease even more as time goes on.

It's hard to reverse negative opinions, therefore I think the 964's value has been depressed as compared to the sometimes overrated 1987 to 1989 3.2's.

Jay
90 964

adsc4s

It is more expensive to maintain the 964 right now because you do not have to adjust the valves in a 993. I also disagree with your opinion that the price gap will decrease between the 993 and 964. If anything, the price gap will increase.

The (image) problem with the 964 is it is the middle child between the handsome, wildly successful older sibling (911) and the hotshot swashbuckling younger sibling (993).

IMHO, the 964 is the best bang for the buck right now so buy them now before someone figures it out!

Randall G.

Well, as long as we're speaking of the 993. In all honesty, it now has as many known/common bugs as the early 964, yet has managed to avoid being stigmatized by these bugs. I'm thinking of, for example:

-The secondary injection check engine light, "proper fix" (per Porsche) is a $head job$. Though, this only affects 96 and newer cars.
-Failing hydraulic lifters. Fortunately, this is not an expensive repair (relatively speaking).
-Use of vacuum control for the recirculation function (for some unknown reason?). Which causes even more chaos in an already complicated system. The shop manual says that replacing the vacuum capsule with bypass (recirc) flaps requires removal of the heater/AC unit (!). Though, I don't know of anyone that's had to replace the capsule, yet. Just lots of headaches chasing down vacuum leaks.
-Engine harness issues, 95 and some 96 models (Porsche recall).
-Difficult oil changes that eat into the cost savings associated with the hydraulic lifters.

When I read Bruce A.'s 993 model/market report, very few, if any, of these issues are mentioned. (Though, Excellence magazine did have an article on the SAI CEL issue).

Anyway, my point is, the 964 has (or had, if updated) bugs, the 993 (great car!) has bugs. Objectively speaking, the 964 doesn't deserve to be singled out for having model-specific bugs, but this still appears to be the common perception. The work of Bruce A.? I dunno'....

adsc4s

Randall, I don't think it is an issue of actual problems. It is more the image. Most models had/have problems. Like I said, I think the 964 is the best bang for the buck. It has a more modern look and tons more performance. What's not to like?

Randall G.

Nope, not arguing with you ads. Actually, I think we're in agreement. I was making the point that the early 964 has been stigmatized by a standard that isn't necessarily applied fairly, considering the "sins" of other versions of the 911. I used the 993 as my example, as it is often held up as being everything the 964 should have been, with no lumps or warts. Fabulous car, but not bulletproof.

adsc4s

We are in absolute agreement. Personally, I love the 964. Used to own a 90 C2 Cab. It was a fun car.

Randall G.

Yup, I remember your 964. Then, a 993 cab, as I recall? Now, the 993TT---one serious piece of machinery!

Jacks911

Randall, I agree with your thoughts, bad labels like nickname have a way of sticking even after you have out grown them. In your list of other faults for non-964 series there are the famous Chain-tensioners that still had issues in SC's, and head studs, and now frequent reports of valve wear. And some of you may have seen articles about the valve wear issues in 993's and then there is the total engine failures in 986 & 996's. So lets face it, maybe the only real failure in 964's is that at the time the car was introduced, Porsche needed a "Spin Doctor" from a major (pick either one) Political Party to "manage" public opinion better. I may also have been a US dealer issue back then, in not supporting owners well enough when the issues came up?. Any way, All porsches (read, The best of High Performance machinery) may have more issues than an every day Toyota, but we love them for what they can do i.e. Perform on the road. And there is no question the 964 out performs the early 911's. Add to that the reasonable pricing, and I call that the "Sweet Spot".

garrett376

come on guys... shhhh!!! You're giving away the secret!!!

dak911

OK,
Jack picked up this topic that I "started" and for that thanks. I did get a lot of the info that I was looking for. I am (nearly) convinced to look more towards the 964 than a G-50. (unlesss I can steal a nice G-50 targa turbolook in oak green) for about $10,000....ha

imcarthur

Funny . . .

SC guys say this, Carrera 3.2 guys say this, 993 guys say this & now 964 guys . . .

Ian

garrett376

I don't mean the secret that they are better (they are but that's subjective)... just the secret that they are such a deal for such an incredible car (there's the objective fact!). The 993 and 3.2 guys certainly can't say that!!!

Idoktr

Still looking for the sub $20k 964 ...the hunt continues....

windblown

i admit that originally I was looking for a g50 and stumbled upon the 964; I had always been a fan of the earlier Porsches and never paid much attention to anything past the 911's. When it came time to purchase I bought the 964... after seeing and driving one next to the earlier models it just looked and felt so "right to me". Don't get me wrong as I love almost any year Porsche, even the 924's (ha,ha) but my Wife always mentions when we see another P-car on the road "not as nice as ours", makes me smile every time. Better go put it back on the trickle charger

mozsan

Aomething I've learned from a master during my trading years :" the market is always right". It's just that we can't figure out why a particular price is there. Also applies to dreamers thinking "One day the market will realize the hidden value , and 964 prices will skyrocket". Well it's not gonna happen because most potential buyers in the years to come dreamt of a 996 when they were 10 years old. And those prices will surely keep coming down. As the proud owner of a 964 , even I have to admit a secret dream where simultaneously 2010 direct injection S prices hit 40's, and my unknown distant uncle in Egypt passes away with my name on his will !