It's coming... It's just a matter of time. This bracket is simply our starting point / mock-up that gives us some forward and aft adjustment to develop the custom crank-drive pulley, belt alignment, tensioner and idler positions etc. (The final product will be a nice CNC piece.) Getting REALLY excited about this now! We'll run an EMtron stand-alone ECU with a custom Rasant harness.

The test-mule engine is built, assembled and ready to go up in the car. The chassis is in paint-jail right now, but due back in a couple of weeks!

 

Back when these were more popular, some people ran the supercharger on the other side of the motor on a custom bracket that replaced the dual distributors (they then went standalone with a coil-on-plug setup) so that they could keep their AC compressor. Any thoughts of doing something like that?

 

If I had to guess I'd say it's going to use the electric AC which all relocated to the front.

 

And that's okay, but it does add like $7-10k to the price of the upgrade depending on whether you DIY the install or pay a shop to do it.

 

Yes, it will run electric A/C - and since somebody mentioned the installation aspect, here are some numbers to chew on for the peripheral cost components (we'll do a take-off from our work on the ITB installation side of things - just as a comparable launching point.)

There are two or three particular manufacturers of custom harnesses that we compete with in that space - producing them for either EMtron, or MoTeC engine management systems (both out of Australia.) Both systems are very good, but the MoTeC is a-LOT more expensive (and they are a bit "elitist" to deal with in my opinion.) MoTeC was acquired by Bosch about two years ago, so some things changed (and not in the end-user's best interest either.) For a variety of reasons, Rasant dropped MoTeC (as did a well-known, premier builder of super bespoke air-cooled cars...)

Incidentally, both companies have now taken the EMtron path (but this is not a "this ECU versus that ECU" conversation - we are talking about harness cost to start with.) I just know that we haven't looked back! Regardless of system, when we make a full custom harness for any twin-plug air-cooled Porsche, there is a solid 70-hours that goes into making them (by the time we also create a relay and fuse Bussmann and add additional for things such as the tachometer / key-ON flying loom, the alternator to starter power harness, starter to fuse box power harness, two twin plug sub harness, dual O2 harnesses, a fuel pump harness and everything terminated for a huge range of sensors.

One can never bill an hourly rate for one of these. The other 2-3 outfits have prices which range between $9,000 to $13,000, for JUST the harness and Rasant Products is somewhere towards the lower cost end of that scale for better quality and precision (and even less if we are only talking single plug per cylinder and mounting the ECU in the engine bay, versus in the cabin under the driver's seat.) It shortens up the harness trunk and now you also don't have to remove the seat!)

It saves wire, it saves loom, it saves time and it spares an expensive bulkhead connector! By the time you add an ECU (a Shadow-8 in the $1,800 range, or a KV-8 in the $3,500 range), an owner looking to go stand-alone (whether for ITBs, or for the addition of a supercharger kit), is looking at $8,000 to $15,000 plus installation and tuning for an ECU and harness. Sure, you can screw around with a grassroots system like a Megasquirt that you can try to build yourself, or try a lower-end system from the dozen or so other vendors out there, but I wouldn't - not for a customer build.

Besides, the real cost is in the labor to create that engine / ECU / power harness - before even buying a standalone ECU.

I would recommend paying for a professional system with load-based tuning strategies, sophisticated bank-to-bank control, altitude correction, dual wide-band O2 / lambda control, build-in CANbus capabilities, sophisticated knock control, solid cold start and idle-air control features etc. So, plan on about $10-11-12K (including that beautiful harness, the ECU, some of the sensors and so on.)

Here comes installation; we typically include the installation for the harness and tuning of the ECU in our ITB installation costs and we quote about $5,000 for that aspect of it - including dyno time.) I would say that if somebody wanted to convert over to standalone first and buy just the harness and ECU (plus then professional installation and tuning by a reputable shop), that packaging can be accomplished for around $15K to $16K (before you buy ITBs - just running it through the stock 964 intake and single throttle at that point.)

I would suspect that the installation of the SC kit - once available, plus installation of the harness, ECU and and final tuning could be accomplished for a similar $7K range- (priced to the end-user (and that's before the cost of the Rotrex kit, or ITBs.

More information on the custom harnesses can be found here - https://www.rasantproducts.com/produ...-plug-ignition

 

That is both a lot of information and not much information at all. I guess the takeaway from 12k for a harness + ecu and 7k for install (not including any of the actual supercharger or intake components) means that if you have to ask, you can't afford it and the price of electric AC will be a rounding error on the build.

Every time I look into this stuff I remember that if you want power (or a widebody) you'll generally save money by just selling your 964 and buying a 965.

 

One of a number of reasons the custom hotrods and restomod builds are so spendy.

 

hopefully the prototype car is out of paint jail
if not, I have the perfect candidate for this
(sent an email)

 

Interesting topic. Any progress yet?