Carbon Ceramic Brakes?
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From: Taichung
Braking performance on OE PCCB's (and all other surface coated discs) are no more different than regular iron discs or ceramic coated iron discs; the only major advantage is weight reduction versus iron discs as there is no carbon-to-carbon contact between the disc and pad. The surface coating serves only one purpose; to protect the disc from damage by rocks/debris as the underlying core of the disc (the actual carbon/ceramic part) is weak to begin with and, in the case of an OE disc, a safety hazard (hence why they can't get TUV certification). It's pure marketing BS that 90% of the population have fallen for.
A proper carbon/ceramic disc (like ours or Surface Transforms) do not have a outer ceramic surface layer. They actual start as carbon/carbon discs (not much difference from the carbon/carbon discs used in Aerospace or F1) and then go through a siliconisation process. The Carbon:Silicon Carbide ratio is what determines the ratio between Performance/Durability as the Silicon Carbide is what provides the disc with durability. As there is no ceramic surface layer, you still benefit from carbon-to-carbon contact between the disc and pad. Surface Transforms and ourselves do not use the surface layer as our production process' are far more strict/controlled, so are much less susceptible to wear (oxidation) than the other discs on the market.
As for the 964 sizes, we actually have OE sizes in stock. Our disc sizes range from 290mm-440mm (we're the only company in the world to offer 290mm and 330mm for 15/16/17" wheels)
A proper carbon/ceramic disc (like ours or Surface Transforms) do not have a outer ceramic surface layer. They actual start as carbon/carbon discs (not much difference from the carbon/carbon discs used in Aerospace or F1) and then go through a siliconisation process. The Carbon:Silicon Carbide ratio is what determines the ratio between Performance/Durability as the Silicon Carbide is what provides the disc with durability. As there is no ceramic surface layer, you still benefit from carbon-to-carbon contact between the disc and pad. Surface Transforms and ourselves do not use the surface layer as our production process' are far more strict/controlled, so are much less susceptible to wear (oxidation) than the other discs on the market.
As for the 964 sizes, we actually have OE sizes in stock. Our disc sizes range from 290mm-440mm (we're the only company in the world to offer 290mm and 330mm for 15/16/17" wheels)
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CTE Carbon Composites
- Specialists in Automotive Carbon Composite Technologies
- Learn about our Carbon Ceramic Brake technology here: https://www.ctecarbon.com/ccb101
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CTE Carbon Composites
- Specialists in Automotive Carbon Composite Technologies
- Learn about our Carbon Ceramic Brake technology here: https://www.ctecarbon.com/ccb101
Visit Our Website: https://www.ctecarbon.com
Like & Follow Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ctecarbon
WhatsApp Enquiries (All Languages): +1 909-569-4095
Official Partners: MFactory Competition Products, Porscue Cup Experience, Ferrari S.p.A, BYD Auto, Honda Racing Corporation, Three Five (555) Motorsport
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From: SoCal
Yeah I have 993 brakes (iron/full floating brembo) on my 964 so I'm sure you can swap a CCB rotor in there... yeah nobody needs it but you will save a lot of weight where it matters, its a material difference. Not cheap tho!
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Joined: Sep 2015
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From: Fairfield County, CT
Braking performance on OE PCCB's (and all other surface coated discs) are no more different than regular iron discs or ceramic coated iron discs; the only major advantage is weight reduction versus iron discs as there is no carbon-to-carbon contact between the disc and pad. The surface coating serves only one purpose; to protect the disc from damage by rocks/debris as the underlying core of the disc (the actual carbon/ceramic part) is weak to begin with and, in the case of an OE disc, a safety hazard (hence why they can't get TUV certification). It's pure marketing BS that 90% of the population have fallen for.
A proper carbon/ceramic disc (like ours or Surface Transforms) do not have a outer ceramic surface layer. They actual start as carbon/carbon discs (not much difference from the carbon/carbon discs used in Aerospace or F1) and then go through a siliconisation process. The Carbon:Silicon Carbide ratio is what determines the ratio between Performance/Durability as the Silicon Carbide is what provides the disc with durability. As there is no ceramic surface layer, you still benefit from carbon-to-carbon contact between the disc and pad. Surface Transforms and ourselves do not use the surface layer as our production process' are far more strict/controlled, so are much less susceptible to wear (oxidation) than the other discs on the market.
As for the 964 sizes, we actually have OE sizes in stock. Our disc sizes range from 290mm-440mm (we're the only company in the world to offer 290mm and 330mm for 15/16/17" wheels)
A proper carbon/ceramic disc (like ours or Surface Transforms) do not have a outer ceramic surface layer. They actual start as carbon/carbon discs (not much difference from the carbon/carbon discs used in Aerospace or F1) and then go through a siliconisation process. The Carbon:Silicon Carbide ratio is what determines the ratio between Performance/Durability as the Silicon Carbide is what provides the disc with durability. As there is no ceramic surface layer, you still benefit from carbon-to-carbon contact between the disc and pad. Surface Transforms and ourselves do not use the surface layer as our production process' are far more strict/controlled, so are much less susceptible to wear (oxidation) than the other discs on the market.
As for the 964 sizes, we actually have OE sizes in stock. Our disc sizes range from 290mm-440mm (we're the only company in the world to offer 290mm and 330mm for 15/16/17" wheels)
I see on your website that you list support for the 964 Turbo with Front and Rear rotors and Front and Rear brake pads.
But you list both rotors as 350x28 when the 964 Turbo uses a 322x32 front and 299x28 rear, and the 1994 Turbo uses a different front pad size to the 1991-93.
Do these really fit? Are adapters included? Are hats included, and, dritically, does the parking brake work?
What are the dimensions of the pads?
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From: Taichung
I see on your website that you list support for the 964 Turbo with Front and Rear rotors and Front and Rear brake pads.
But you list both rotors as 350x28 when the 964 Turbo uses a 322x32 front and 299x28 rear, and the 1994 Turbo uses a different front pad size to the 1991-93.
Do these really fit? Are adapters included? Are hats included, and, dritically, does the parking brake work?
What are the dimensions of the pads?
But you list both rotors as 350x28 when the 964 Turbo uses a 322x32 front and 299x28 rear, and the 1994 Turbo uses a different front pad size to the 1991-93.
Do these really fit? Are adapters included? Are hats included, and, dritically, does the parking brake work?
What are the dimensions of the pads?
The only reason why we have an application list is just to give a general idea to visitors what fitments we have or are possible. For all of our customers though, we always verify beforehand the exact OD/Thickness/Sweep that they require and also what caliper they are using. I would say around 70% of our customers actually just order via the "Universal" listing, rather than by "Vehicle Fitment".
If the customer let's us know the exact disc size that they require (that fits both their wheel and caliper) and the pad reference (which varies, depending on the caliper), then we will build a kit to suit. While we have most disc sizes in stock (if not, we can usually just machine down a larger size to their requirements), all of our bells are custom made-to-order with a 1-2 week lead time i.e You can specify the exact PCD/Offset/Thickness that you require
Yes, we design the bell to accomodate the rear parking brake.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: London UK & Paris FR
I guess a lot of weight to save and not only suspended but saving a lot on the engine effort to accelarate and decelarate.
But do those last well on track ?
Sadly not on my budget at all.
But would consider in future titanium hubs and studs, those will save 1 kg per side
So how much the carbon discs saves then ? compare to 330 / 300
But do those last well on track ?
Sadly not on my budget at all.
But would consider in future titanium hubs and studs, those will save 1 kg per side
So how much the carbon discs saves then ? compare to 330 / 300
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From: Taichung
I guess a lot of weight to save and not only suspended but saving a lot on the engine effort to accelarate and decelarate.
But do those last well on track ?
Sadly not on my budget at all.
But would consider in future titanium hubs and studs, those will save 1 kg per side
So how much the carbon discs saves then ? compare to 330 / 300
But do those last well on track ?
Sadly not on my budget at all.
But would consider in future titanium hubs and studs, those will save 1 kg per side
So how much the carbon discs saves then ? compare to 330 / 300
Do they last well on the track? Not if they are OE or one of the cheap Mainland China discs (i.e All Carbon Ceramic discs on the market that have a ceramic outer surface layer). These are what gave CCB/CCM's their bad reputation on the track. If they are one of the next generation CCM's (i.e Surface Transforms, Alcon CC-X or ours, CTE Carbon), then yes, they will last you a very long time on the track. These do not suffer the same extreme rate of wear (oxidation) as the OE and China discs do.
As for price, Carbon Ceramic discs are expensive because they are expensive to manufacture unfortunately (unless you are talking about the cheap OE Brembo/SGL stuff which costs peanuts to make, but charge exorbitant amounts for).
If you are on a budget though, may I suggest waiting for our new patened CCS discs (multi-layer long fibre discs, versus our current 1pc long fibre discs). Braking performance is exactly the same as the current next generation CCM's with the only constraint being sustained high-temp environments (e.g endurance racing). If that does not apply to you, then our CCS may be right up your alley. These will be priced at < $1000 per disc.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,748
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From: London UK & Paris FR
Hi , thank you for the extensive explaination.
I did not say they are expensive , did I ?
I just can't afford them at present.
But really see the point on fitting those.
Not either daring comparing yours to the ones sold from various traders on Alibaba, because I know nothing about CCBs.
I did not say they are expensive , did I ?
I just can't afford them at present.
But really see the point on fitting those.
Not either daring comparing yours to the ones sold from various traders on Alibaba, because I know nothing about CCBs.
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From: Taichung
Hi , thank you for the extensive explaination.
I did not say they are expensive , did I ?
I just can't afford them at present.
But really see the point on fitting those.
Not either daring comparing yours to the ones sold from various traders on Alibaba, because I know nothing about CCBs.
I did not say they are expensive , did I ?
I just can't afford them at present.
But really see the point on fitting those.
Not either daring comparing yours to the ones sold from various traders on Alibaba, because I know nothing about CCBs.
The aftermarket performance market has been waiting for a very long time for an affordable carbon ceramic disc (i.e comparable to 2pc Iron discs such as PFC or Girodisc) that doesn't force you to switch to iron discs due to cost of consumables. 2025 will finally be the time, as that is when our new CCS discs will be released, priced between $500-1000/disc, depending on size.
Last edited by CTE Carbon; Nov 18, 2024 at 07:24 PM.
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From: Fairfield County, CT
The aftermarket performance market has been waiting for a very long time for an affordable carbon ceramic disc (i.e comparable to 2pc Iron discs such as PFC or Girodisc) that doesn't force you to switch to iron discs due to cost of consumables. 2025 will finally be the time, as that is when our new CCS discs will be released, priced between $500-1000/disc, depending on size.
This is very exciting information. I would be very interested in testing multi-layer CCS discs at that price point. What kind of pads are these discs going to require?
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From: Taichung
Our current samples are designed to be used with CCB-friendly pads (so basically ours, Pagid, Brembo and Endless. There "may" be some others, depending on caliper), although we are looking to play around with the C:SiC composition slightly so that they can be used with regular carbon or ceramic pads (which a lot of companies currently offer). We are actually working with Dixcel, Endless and PFC at the moment on some pad compounds for the discs.
Last edited by CTE Carbon; Nov 19, 2024 at 07:46 PM.
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@CTE Carbon can you guys provide just discs for those of us that already have bells if provided with the exact bolt pattern/offset is it a package only type of deal?
Pete
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From: Taichung
@CTE Carbon can you guys provide just discs for those of us that already have bells if provided with the exact bolt pattern/offset is it a package only type of deal?
Pete
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3-4kg (more if the disc is larger) lower unsprung rotating mass per wheel makes a very noticeable difference.
Do they last well on the track? Not if they are OE or one of the cheap Mainland China discs (i.e All Carbon Ceramic discs on the market that have a ceramic outer surface layer). These are what gave CCB/CCM's their bad reputation on the track. If they are one of the next generation CCM's (i.e Surface Transforms, Alcon CC-X or ours, CTE Carbon), then yes, they will last you a very long time on the track. These do not suffer the same extreme rate of wear (oxidation) as the OE and China discs do.
As for price, Carbon Ceramic discs are expensive because they are expensive to manufacture unfortunately (unless you are talking about the cheap OE Brembo/SGL stuff which costs peanuts to make, but charge exorbitant amounts for).
If you are on a budget though, may I suggest waiting for our new patened CCS discs (multi-layer long fibre discs, versus our current 1pc long fibre discs). Braking performance is exactly the same as the current next generation CCM's with the only constraint being sustained high-temp environments (e.g endurance racing). If that does not apply to you, then our CCS may be right up your alley. These will be priced at < $1000 per disc.
Do they last well on the track? Not if they are OE or one of the cheap Mainland China discs (i.e All Carbon Ceramic discs on the market that have a ceramic outer surface layer). These are what gave CCB/CCM's their bad reputation on the track. If they are one of the next generation CCM's (i.e Surface Transforms, Alcon CC-X or ours, CTE Carbon), then yes, they will last you a very long time on the track. These do not suffer the same extreme rate of wear (oxidation) as the OE and China discs do.
As for price, Carbon Ceramic discs are expensive because they are expensive to manufacture unfortunately (unless you are talking about the cheap OE Brembo/SGL stuff which costs peanuts to make, but charge exorbitant amounts for).
If you are on a budget though, may I suggest waiting for our new patened CCS discs (multi-layer long fibre discs, versus our current 1pc long fibre discs). Braking performance is exactly the same as the current next generation CCM's with the only constraint being sustained high-temp environments (e.g endurance racing). If that does not apply to you, then our CCS may be right up your alley. These will be priced at < $1000 per disc.