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Not to get off track here, but as nice as Gunther cars are, what sense is it to have a fixed bucket seat with no cage? And a HANS device? What does all that stuff do when the roof collapses on you? LOL
. btw the Driver DID have a HANS along with a helmet, gloves and fire suit too... Why would you say he didn't?? Why would you post lies when you apparently didn't know. Furthermore, he was in an FIA seat that was basically a capsule...
I see your reading comprehension skills are quite lacking. (not sure what that says about design skills). Feel free to reread my comment above. My criticism was that he WAS running HANS, not that he wasnt.
Originally Posted by nk993
Guntherwerks also runs without a roll cage and with HANS, which only retards do.
anyway, not sure why you got your panties in a twist about someone criticizing someone that isnt you. Spend more time addressing the issues isntead
I'd prefer the torx button head over the allen. The allens always strip. Most of the allens on my car have been hit with a torx to actually make it fit better (cayenne oil drain, 996tt sump plugs, etc.).
]Not to get off track here, but as nice as Gunther cars are, what sense is it to have a fixed bucket seat with no cage? And a HANS device? What does all that stuff do when the roof collapses on you? LOL
What does it do?? It clearly saved the drivers life... Keep in mind, since the conception of the car to the first sale, roll bars and roll cages have been offered
Maybe lets start a new thread to argue about Gunther cars.
Pete, are you making new hardlines to go between the calipers and the struts? I'm slowly finishing up my upgrade to 993RS uprights and find with the new calipers the hardline fit is poor using the old lines. I guess I should have ordered 993 versions but I'm trying to get this thing on the road asap....
Maybe lets start a new thread to argue about Gunther cars.
Pete, are you making new hardlines to go between the calipers and the struts? I'm slowly finishing up my upgrade to 993RS uprights and find with the new calipers the hardline fit is poor using the old lines. I guess I should have ordered 993 versions but I'm trying to get this thing on the road asap....
Tom
Im ordering parts now so this would be good to know. My stock hard lines are a little beat up (nuts not in perfect shape).
Im ordering parts now so this would be good to know. My stock hard lines are a little beat up (nuts not in perfect shape).
Pricing on one side looks to be semi reasonable, but pricing on the other side is dramatically higher. I may try to gently make mine fit as is.
Part numbers for 993 variants:
993-355-581-02
993-355-584-02
Not to get off track here, but as nice as Gunther cars are, what sense is it to have a fixed bucket seat with no cage? And a HANS device? What does all that stuff do when the roof collapses on you? LOL
Originally Posted by nk993
I see your reading comprehension skills are quite lacking. (not sure what that says about design skills). Feel free to reread my comment above. My criticism was that he WAS running HANS, not that he wasnt.
anyway, not sure why you got your panties in a twist about someone criticizing someone that isnt you. Spend more time addressing the issues isntead
Takes more than this to twist my panties... just responding and clarifying. You made some pretty harsh comments about how essentially dumb it was to use a GW as an example of forces publicly when the forces of that car exceed most others which makes a good point. I'm not criticizing you or call you names as you did, just explaining the situation because you are concerned enough to make these comments. I'm sorry you didn't like Ira's example, but he was only trying to reassure Peter.. You then go on to criticize my reading skills and compare it to my designs ... On that point, why would it bother you that someone would wear a HANS when a car has no roll bar? What do the two have in common other than they are both safety devices. A roll bar responds to compression a HANS is not designed to respond compression.
You also said, "someone criticizing someone that isn't you". I'll be clear here; I brought the driver that day which is a friend of mine who I care about and for that reason I made sure he was protected even without a bar (which we now have proof of) I managed that car and made all the calls in the pits for all the test sessions using my settings. Please explain to me how you feel I have nothing to do with it? I've been doing this for 40 Plus years and it doesn't always work how we want it to but I've worked with the best and won a number of professional races and championships as a result and still never put anyone in the hospital from a bad decision so, yes, I take this seriously and personally, it's my life. That why I felt I needed to respond to you. Lets leave it at that if you want to talk more we can do it offline.
I just wanted to assure Peter he has nothing to worry about other than esthetics and we will address that too. The strength and force issues have been tested both in FEA and Race tracks and in daily practical use for years now and never even a stress crack in the plating
I've been to busy with work to respond and in the mean time this thread took off!
@Cary - thanks for you input. One of the reasons I love working on and driving cars is that there is always something new to learn. I can see how the bolts surrounding the retainer act as a cage and that makes sense. I also appreciate your input on the 12.9 potentially being too brittle in this application- the OEM bolts are also 10.9.
I'd like to hear what all is involved with fitting center locks to a 964..... Its something that I have on my radar for the future.
I sure wish t was in a position to have an opinion on the GW cars but unfortunately I am not. I'm glad your friend made it out of the crash without major injuries.
I can say that I have been happy with all the ERP stuff I have purchased and appreciate that Ira and Cary's willingness to take care of any issues that have come up. I think this issue is relatively minor and I'm confident it will get worked out.
Anyhow- @jeff33702 thanks for trying to keep this thread OT in my absence. My brembo kit has braided lines to the caliper so I could not have been much help there. Glad you got it worked out.
So- based on @Foxman and @The Greek experiences and also haven noticed at how there is more camber to be had by modifying the MCS (see post 22) AND- given that I'm in a state of wait on both the MCS and the ERP parts I took a step backwards, cleaned up the 964 longs and pulled the 993 units out. Well- in the process I noticed that when installing the arms There was a large gap at the front wishbone bearing with the rear all buttoned up. It seems to put a ton of stress on the bearings. I can't see any evidence of either the wishbone or the long being bent and measured the 993 units vs the 964 and the are identical.With the bolts torqued to spec the wishbone movement is very stiff. Moreso on the left than the right.
You are on the right track here. You can get the camber with both the 993 and 964 side members, but you need to notch the shock towers to make the MCS/ERP combo fit with 964 longitudes. I’m going back to the 964 longitudes, and sourcing new ones is challenging. I may have a lead on a used set from a 50 mile C4, but the seller only accepts checks in advance.
When attaching the control arms, you typically hook the control arm around the forward mounting position first to ensure the locating pin aligns with the notch in the side arm. This prevents the top hat bushing from moving while tightening the bolt. But you have monoball bushings, and there’s no locating pin. This may account for some of the rattle until you crank them down. You should reach out to Elephant to confirm, but I think it’s just the monoballs.
Have you tried 964parts on instagram? He always has what I need
Originally Posted by Foxman
Hi Pete,
You are on the right track here. You can get the camber with both the 993 and 964 side members, but you need to notch the shock towers to make the MCS/ERP combo fit with 964 longitudes. I’m going back to the 964 longitudes, and sourcing new ones is challenging. I may have a lead on a used set from a 50 mile C4, but the seller only accepts checks in advance.
When attaching the control arms, you typically hook the control arm around the forward mounting position first to ensure the locating pin aligns with the notch in the side arm. This prevents the top hat bushing from moving while tightening the bolt. But you have monoball bushings, and there’s no locating pin. This may account for some of the rattle until you crank them down. You should reach out to Elephant to confirm, but I think it’s just the monoballs.
You are on the right track here. You can get the camber with both the 993 and 964 side members, but you need to notch the shock towers to make the MCS/ERP combo fit with 964 longitudes. I’m going back to the 964 longitudes, and sourcing new ones is challenging. I may have a lead on a used set from a 50 mile C4, but the seller only accepts checks in advance.
When attaching the control arms, you typically hook the control arm around the forward mounting position first to ensure the locating pin aligns with the notch in the side arm. This prevents the top hat bushing from moving while tightening the bolt. But you have monoball bushings, and there’s no locating pin. This may account for some of the rattle until you crank them down. You should reach out to Elephant to confirm, but I think it’s just the monoballs.
I picked up my 993 longs and wishbones at la dismantlers. So you might check there as well.
I'm hoping that just modifying the MCS units will negate the need to grind the shock towers. We'll see. This car is a dual purpose and I have been running -2.5* or so up front. I'll probably never need more than that and am hoping that the increased - caster from these camber plates in addition with will allow for a lower camber setting that still keeps the tires inthe sweet spot for cornering.. It will be interesting to see how that all works out.
I did reach out to Elephant and will surely hear back soon. I took one wishbone of at lunch and put it back onto a 993 long and it seems to fit almost the same way. The 993 and the right side 964 has less friction (less axial load on the bearings) thank the left side in the video above. I think that it basically has to have some play in order to be assembled. You have to place the front bearing in place first and then the rear bearing has to kind of swing into place as you tap it home. When you first start to put the rear bearing in place due to the angle of the arm vs the long the arm is a little short.
I discovered another different between the 964 and 993 longs and that is the space allotted for the brake booster assembly is a bit wider with the 993's. Its not a huge deal probably but I did make up a spacer to take up some of the difference. If fitting the 993 vacuum assembly in place with 964 longs it will be about 8mm too long- but that doesn't seem to have been a problem for anyone that I have read. If so I bet a little filing on the top mount hole on #33 would make up for it enough.
Spacer I used with the 993 longs and 964 master assembly.
05-16-2024, 09:27 AM
