Which 964?
06-10-2004, 01:19 AM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which 964?
Hi everybody. I've been lurking on here for a while, reading through all these excellent posts. One could spend weeks reading here! I'm planning to buy a 911 at the end of the year. I've wanted one for years and now that I have my wife, son, house etc ticked off the lifeplan list, I figure its the time to do it. 
I have a budget of about Aus$65K, so here in Australia that will get me into a 964, or a 911 Carrera 3.2 Turbo. I think I am pretty well sold on the 964, and a C2 at that. Should I be trying to get the latest 964 available, say MY92-93, (did they make 964's in 93?). I'm basically wanting one that is going to be as reliable as possible for its age, and to have had all its gremlins sorted out during its years of manufacture. I presume the ones with cylinder head gaskets are more reliable, or less prone to oil leaks? Were there any other major mechanical mods/improvements during the life of the 964?
I think at this stage I'll be chasing a Turbo body 964 if I can find one, if not I'll settle for standard. I will be wanting to switch it to a dual exhaust system, maybe do the airbox mod I've read about, and maybe, just maybe, chip it to gain a few more hp if possible? What are some of the best bang-for-your-buck mods you can do without compromising reliability?
Its all new to me, so feel free to flame me.
Any advice, criticisms, tips greatly appreciated.
cheers
Mal
I have a budget of about Aus$65K, so here in Australia that will get me into a 964, or a 911 Carrera 3.2 Turbo. I think I am pretty well sold on the 964, and a C2 at that. Should I be trying to get the latest 964 available, say MY92-93, (did they make 964's in 93?). I'm basically wanting one that is going to be as reliable as possible for its age, and to have had all its gremlins sorted out during its years of manufacture. I presume the ones with cylinder head gaskets are more reliable, or less prone to oil leaks? Were there any other major mechanical mods/improvements during the life of the 964?
I think at this stage I'll be chasing a Turbo body 964 if I can find one, if not I'll settle for standard. I will be wanting to switch it to a dual exhaust system, maybe do the airbox mod I've read about, and maybe, just maybe, chip it to gain a few more hp if possible? What are some of the best bang-for-your-buck mods you can do without compromising reliability?
Its all new to me, so feel free to flame me.
Any advice, criticisms, tips greatly appreciated.cheers
Mal
06-10-2004, 02:58 AM
#3
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by axl911
3.2 Turbo!!!!
The flares. The curves. The TURBO!!!!
3.2 Turbo!!!!
The flares. The curves. The TURBO!!!!
I hope I'm making sense here...
cheers
Mal
06-10-2004, 05:46 AM
#4
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am by no means an expert, but I have picked up a lot of information here on rennlist and through books and fellow P-owners.
Last time I checked, theres no such thing as a 3.2 turbo. I guess you mean the 3.3 turbo, a.k.a. the 930. As far as reliability, the 3.3 turbo is a very reliable engine. Don't know about maintnance costs though. Everybody say a turbo is always going to be more expensive than a N/A engine, but I don't know if you are comparing the 964:s N/A 3.6 to the 930 3.3 turbo. The 3.3 is coparatively dinosaur technology compared to the 3.6 with its twin ignition etc. Also the suspension, brakes and gearbox is much more modern in the 964, especially with the pre 89 930:s which had a 4 speed gearbox. It also seems hard to find nice 930:s theese days which haven't been modd-lested.
You are right that the 964 had some changes made to it during its life. One thing was the cylinder to cylinder head gasket which I believe was first introduced in the late 91 builds. However this problem seems to have been a bit overblown, but the early 964:s have gained a bad rep. Therefore, if you can find someone who really knows 964:s to help you, there are bargains to be made on 90-91 C2:s.
Other issues are the dual mass flywheel which shoed to not be as reliable as one could wish and therefore replaced with a DMF of another make in the 1992 models. Also there should be ventilation hoses installed in the engine to ventilate the distributor belt.
As these cars are approaching the age of 15, it doesn't take Einstein to figure out that many of these problems are taken care of, or it just didn't apply to that specific car. I guess if you buy a 93 car, you will not be totally safe from leaks just due to the fact that it is now becoming an old car.
If you can't do it yourself, find someone who can help you examine the cars thorroughly. That is more important than the year of make.
good luck
Christian
Last time I checked, theres no such thing as a 3.2 turbo. I guess you mean the 3.3 turbo, a.k.a. the 930. As far as reliability, the 3.3 turbo is a very reliable engine. Don't know about maintnance costs though. Everybody say a turbo is always going to be more expensive than a N/A engine, but I don't know if you are comparing the 964:s N/A 3.6 to the 930 3.3 turbo. The 3.3 is coparatively dinosaur technology compared to the 3.6 with its twin ignition etc. Also the suspension, brakes and gearbox is much more modern in the 964, especially with the pre 89 930:s which had a 4 speed gearbox. It also seems hard to find nice 930:s theese days which haven't been modd-lested.
You are right that the 964 had some changes made to it during its life. One thing was the cylinder to cylinder head gasket which I believe was first introduced in the late 91 builds. However this problem seems to have been a bit overblown, but the early 964:s have gained a bad rep. Therefore, if you can find someone who really knows 964:s to help you, there are bargains to be made on 90-91 C2:s.
Other issues are the dual mass flywheel which shoed to not be as reliable as one could wish and therefore replaced with a DMF of another make in the 1992 models. Also there should be ventilation hoses installed in the engine to ventilate the distributor belt.
As these cars are approaching the age of 15, it doesn't take Einstein to figure out that many of these problems are taken care of, or it just didn't apply to that specific car. I guess if you buy a 93 car, you will not be totally safe from leaks just due to the fact that it is now becoming an old car.
If you can't do it yourself, find someone who can help you examine the cars thorroughly. That is more important than the year of make.
good luck
Christian
06-10-2004, 05:54 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
Mal,
I would recommend having a read of Phil Raby's buying guide (don't know the link offhand) and also take a look at John's site as he has a good collection of 964 articles collected over the years.
I have a turbo bodied car (non factory) and it took me a fair amount of time to find it. If you go for a non factory turbo body be sure to ask why the conversion was done, 9 out of 10 times it's because the car has been in some sort of accident so do be thorough when looking a car over.
Best of luck.
I would recommend having a read of Phil Raby's buying guide (don't know the link offhand) and also take a look at John's site as he has a good collection of 964 articles collected over the years.
I have a turbo bodied car (non factory) and it took me a fair amount of time to find it. If you go for a non factory turbo body be sure to ask why the conversion was done, 9 out of 10 times it's because the car has been in some sort of accident so do be thorough when looking a car over.
Best of luck.
06-10-2004, 07:22 AM
#6
Instructor
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: geneva switzerland
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kOOk!
Go for anything later than '91 in the 964 range!
Look for a beloved anorak-carnuts-964-lover-car!
BTW C2's where never offered as a Factory-Turbo-Body version, apart....and it's damn rare as a C2 speedster Turbo-Body...but as I said...more than rare... so far I've only seen one in silver in my entire life!
Look for a C2, they're a bit more fun to drive (sorry to all C4 owners over the board) because they're about 100Kg lighter tahan a standard C4.
Have a PPI first, don't ask why but I didn't ($$$$ouch$$$$)
Gruetzi Thomas
Go for anything later than '91 in the 964 range!
Look for a beloved anorak-carnuts-964-lover-car!
BTW C2's where never offered as a Factory-Turbo-Body version, apart....and it's damn rare as a C2 speedster Turbo-Body...but as I said...more than rare... so far I've only seen one in silver in my entire life!
Look for a C2, they're a bit more fun to drive (sorry to all C4 owners over the board) because they're about 100Kg lighter tahan a standard C4.
Have a PPI first, don't ask why but I didn't ($$$$ouch$$$$)
Gruetzi Thomas
Trending Topics
06-10-2004, 08:51 AM
#8
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The 30 Jahre Anniversary 911 is a factory wide bodied '93 964. But I think its a C4? Which of course means it's completely wonderful...
Don't forget Adrian Streather's book published thru Bentley. I think he's one of your species, too.
The 964 isn't cheap to add BHP to. There's a few with chips on the board - I've stayed away worried about premature engine wear, maybe I'll give in one day..
The 930 is from a different era completely. 4 speed? Quaint.
From what I've heard about speeding restrictions in Oz, you're going to have to exercise some serious self-restraint once you get that needle past 4K rpm.. :-)
Don't forget Adrian Streather's book published thru Bentley. I think he's one of your species, too.
The 964 isn't cheap to add BHP to. There's a few with chips on the board - I've stayed away worried about premature engine wear, maybe I'll give in one day..
The 930 is from a different era completely. 4 speed? Quaint.
From what I've heard about speeding restrictions in Oz, you're going to have to exercise some serious self-restraint once you get that needle past 4K rpm.. :-)
Last edited by Johnny G; 06-10-2004 at 09:11 AM.
06-10-2004, 09:03 AM
#9
Personally, I wouldn't bother with a chip. I did get it done, can't tell any difference and notice that my rev limiter cuts in higher - which concerns me. I am seriously considering getting rid of it and going back the stock chip once I get around to organising it.
Assume that if you want noticeable bhp gains it will cost you thousands rather than hundreds.
As for C4 vs C2 - most advice I've ever seen says don't look specifically for one type unless :
a) it's primarily a track car (in which case go C2)
b) it's used in very bad weather (i.e. deep snow) a lot of the year (in which case go C4).
Other than that - service history, caring owner, mechanical condition etc. are more important.
Service costs are quite high on a 964 though - higher than 993s and higher than 3.2s - not sure how 3.3 turbo costs compare.
Assume that if you want noticeable bhp gains it will cost you thousands rather than hundreds.
As for C4 vs C2 - most advice I've ever seen says don't look specifically for one type unless :
a) it's primarily a track car (in which case go C2)
b) it's used in very bad weather (i.e. deep snow) a lot of the year (in which case go C4).
Other than that - service history, caring owner, mechanical condition etc. are more important.
Service costs are quite high on a 964 though - higher than 993s and higher than 3.2s - not sure how 3.3 turbo costs compare.
06-10-2004, 09:08 AM
#11
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I think I'll definitely be trying to get a 92-93 C2. I've gone right off an earlier Turbo Carrera 3.3. As you pointed out, its fairly old tech now, and a 4 speed box. I just picked up the June '04 edition of 911 & Porsche World, and it has Phil Rabys 964 buyers guide in it. Also interesting to see he rates the 964 as a better buy over the 993. Disappointed to hear they didnt offer the turbo body on the 964. I did see the 30th Anniversary they brought out. I think the chances of me finding one of those in Oz are zero and non-existant. Yes, speeding restrictions in Oz are bloody ludicrous, but hey, I even get the old Volvo V70 up to a fair old pace now and then, ( oh the shame of it all). Its primarily just a car to use a few times a week, and I guess it will get the occasional track outing. Dont have to worry about snow here. No snow in WA ever, except maybe once every decade in about a 2km radius down south, and thats in the middle of a national park with no roads.
I guess I should try and locate one before I worry about adding more horsepower. I have a good friend here in Perth who runs a used Porsche shop, so I'll be getting him to source me one, and thoroughly go over it before I buy anything. I think I'm the only here without a Porsche aren't I?
cheers
Mal
___________
'97 Volvo V70 <---- lol
I guess I should try and locate one before I worry about adding more horsepower. I have a good friend here in Perth who runs a used Porsche shop, so I'll be getting him to source me one, and thoroughly go over it before I buy anything. I think I'm the only here without a Porsche aren't I?
cheers
Mal
___________
'97 Volvo V70 <---- lol
06-10-2004, 09:09 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
First of all, congratulations. You have made an excellent choice, and I'm sure you are in for a lot of enjoyment with your future 911. However, buying the right car is essential unless you have very deep pockets. Getting it wrong will cost you dearly, and you will live with the knowledge that you bought the wrong car.
I strongly recommend buying Adrian Crawfords 964 Buyers Guide. I used it as a check list when I searched for my C4, and it helped me no end. It provides you with a detailed and thorough methodology for making an infromed purchase.
Have a look at Adrian's site: http://www.performance2and4.co.uk
Good luck!!!
I strongly recommend buying Adrian Crawfords 964 Buyers Guide. I used it as a check list when I searched for my C4, and it helped me no end. It provides you with a detailed and thorough methodology for making an infromed purchase.
Have a look at Adrian's site: http://www.performance2and4.co.uk
Good luck!!!
06-10-2004, 11:07 AM
#14
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep, we drive like they do in the UK, opposite side to you in the US. And for one of the most sparsely populated and THE largest island in the world, we have the most ridiculous speed limits. 110kph, or about 65mph top. Unless you go to the Northern Territory, where on certain roads, namely the Stuart Highway in large sections, there are no speed limits at all. Its still just a two lane, (single lane each way), road though, so you want to be pretty confident of knowing your own personal limits. Also happens to be 2,000km from where I am here in Perth.
cheers
Mal
cheers
Mal