dove

Christer, Many 964 owners have exceeded 20K in maintaining their cars over 2- 3 years,on top of the 20 ish K purchase price putting a total in excess of 40K...for what very high mileage transport which will continue to need money spent on it.For 35K you can get a 30K miles 2000 996 or a very nice 97 993 with the same mileage.In two years these cars will be worth 25-28K with only service costs plus tyres etc.
Theres no way these cars will cost 20K plus to run in 2- 3 years,and they are hassle free and the only loss would be 7-10K on resale.And now the best bit both these cars will out perform a 964,you know it makes sense!
964 addiction its a money pit!on a plus side though a mint 90K 964 can be bought for 14K these days higher mileage cars even less obviously because of the high cost to keep the old wrecks going

Paul

ian c - u.k

take a chill-pill paul , it was a joke !!!
there wasn't a smilie , just a wink

car wasn't built for track-days , but i'm up for a laugh !!!
will let you know on that one

i think your comment abouit me not knowing much about porsche is a bit stupid really !!!
anyone can pick upo a magazine and read about the boxsters design cues .
i wouldn't say it is based on a 550 though !!!

when i decided i was gonna spend 25-30k on a porsche ,
i wanted an early 911 and i was gonna do a full restoration on it .
, but as i was working in another country at the time , by the time the magazines got there , and i got to see the ads . thyey where usually all sold .
so then i looked at 996's , and this got me looking at boxsters too , coz they can be bought more readily from places like the autotrader website.

in the end i went for a 964 convertible . 1993 , so most of the problems had been ironed out at the factory by this time .
and as i was planning on doing a full re-build , most of the car will be like new / improved on anyway . so i'm hoping for no nasty suprises !!

i also decided the car was going to be my second car .
my daily runner will be my oettinger golf .
now , if you want to talk about marque history . explain to me the relevance of oettinger .

springer3

I'll bet the average maintenance bill for a 964 forum member is less than $2000 per year. I am on year 2, and averaging $1000/year (tires, shocks, and four oil changes). I averaged less than $1000 per year on my 1970 911 over 26 years. Sorry, but I own Porsches because they are a bargain. I am not wealthy, and I have a family to raise. The Porsche earns its keep as a reliable driver or I would not be able to afford it.

Any car can be a money pit. 964 parts are expensive because of the high quality, excellent engineering, and limited production volume. Buy a good 964, and follow the maintenance instructions. You will be surprised how little attention is really needed. Neglect and abuse run up the maintenance costs. Incompetent and/or dishonest mechanics will also run up the costs. I would not recommend any exotic car, especially an old one, for anyone that does not DIY or have a good relationship with a honest and competent mechanic.

If the car is making you miserable, please sell it. The negativity on this thread is spoiling my great mood!

JoeW

"I race a Porsche. I can't afford to race anything else."

I forget who said that. Joe W.

eddychan

Hi,

Springer3 is RIGHT!

I do not believe that a large portion of Porsche 964 owners spent over 20 thousand pounds in 2 to 3 years to maintain their cars. Paul , how do you get this information and how can you claim this?

I spent about one thousand pound per year to maintain my car here in Hong Kong. I must admit I did some DIY work myself and I have a good mechanic whom I can talk to about Porsche a whole day.
During the last two years, I had the air-con system renewed, a 60K service, a new distributor belt and the venting kit put in, a new set of valve cover gaskets, change oil and filter twice and a set of spark plugs.

I reckon that I need to change the cam housing gasket soon, a bit wet there, and I need to sort out the valve cover problem... either I try out the new liquid gasket like Arjan suggested or get a new pair of covers from Eagleday ( they look great!) I have estimate about 1 to 2 thousand pounds here so that will bring the total up to the average amount most people would spend - around 2 thousand pounds a year.

IMHO, that is less than the deprication I experienced from many many other cars I owned before.

Cheers!

Eddie

DaveK

I agree. If all of these cars really cost £20K to maintain over 2-3 years, then most of them would have been scrapped by now. I certainly don't accept that "many" 964 owners have spent in excess of £20K in 3 years (there are an awful lot of 964 owners on here, so if you have feel free to correct me!).

I would also dispute the "hassle free" element of owning a '97 993. I love 993s - and they probably are cheaper to maintain than a 964, simply because they are newer. But lets face it - even a '97 one is still 7 years old, it's going to need some stuff fixing - and it's still a Porsche so the parts and labour are still expensive. I've thought about trading in for a 993 a few times (think they look gorgeous) - but it's the fact that I've corrected loads of stuff on my car, but would then be buying a 7-10 year old car where I might have to do it all again that's stopped me.

I have spent about £20K - but as I said, I reckon only about £10K of that is maintenance (although that's just a guess). But I think that was unusual - and a lot of this was because the car had been neglected by the previous owner. When I bought it, I knew nothing about them - so paid mechanics for everything that needed fixing (even things like heated rear window not working which was obviously just the relay). Some of my cost was also bad luck - about £1.5K was trying to fix my ABS problems - which was eventually fixed by a different mechanic for £100. When I did get my steering rack replaced I also ended up with one from Porsche (£1200 fitted) rather than an independent like Berlyn (about £550 fitted). I'm a bit more clued up these days (thanks to rennlist) so I think I should be able to keep the costs down to more sensible levels.

I would guess the average maintenance costs are in the £1-2K a year region. Certainly more than a new family car, but a figure I can live with that.

It's probably clear from the threads I started that I was sick of the car at the start of the week - and it was really the steering rack that caused that. It's not nice having to replace something that's only 2 years old - and for various reasons the timing wasn't ideal either. Now - although I would still prefer a smaller service bill - I've been without the car for a week, and probably won't get it back for another week and I seriously miss it. Guess that makes a lot of the cost worthwhile.

Rob W.

Dave, I think you have been a little unfortunate with the amount you have spent on the 964. I can't add anything of value to the argument based on my experience of the running costs over the last two years, but, I would recommend taking a look at another independant specialist.

I know it is a bit of a trek for you, but Neil Bainbridge at BS Motorsport in Aylesbury is really excellent. His outfit is a bit 'muck and bullets' but you only need to look at his motorsport record to see how competent he is. Since I started using him, he has reduced my regular servicing outlay considerably, he is excellent at programming in jobs for the future, rather than a whack all in one go, which suits me as I cover 23k miles a year, and the car is in for service once a quarter. One of the most significant differences being that he specialises in 964's and he has a stockpile of second hand parts that are the result of racecar upgrades. For example, I had similar ABS problems to you which turned out to be the main valve block, Neil charged me £100 for a second hand one that is like new. Some of the other independents (none mentioned) would never take the time to find the most economical option, more likely to ring the OPC or Europarts and price up a new one. Some people, I know, wouldn't be happy having s/h parts on their vehicles, I'm not too precious about it, the car isn't concours and it never will be.

I'm sure this doesn't help you now, as your money is already committed, but it made a financial difference to me once I shifted my allegence from one of the parties already mentioned.

Good luck (...and keep the car)

Rob W

Christer

Paul

I don't think its worth going down this road.

Your figures are still wrong, but that doesn't seem to matter. Enjoy your car, we will certainly enjoy ours! (in between breakdowns and Boxsters flying past on the track....ha ha)

DaveK

They'll be doing that because we only made it half way around the track before catastrophic breakdown.........

I've decided that my 964 makes me spend money. I've managed to (hopefully) reduce the cost of the service with some of the advice I had here. I was then debating about the navigation system - should I... shouldn't I......

Then I realised that one of the ways I've reduced the service cost is by arranging for the air con to be done by a guy Bins recommended. But of course - I'll have to find him..... which would be much easier with a navigation system....... so I think I've knocked about £300 off the price of getting my evaporator replaced - but I've just ordered a £450 navigation system because of it. Well, kind of because of it......

Christer - at least when your car is ready, this time I will be able to find 9M. On the other hand, I suspect the roads will have changed by then

johnfm

If I may stick my oar in here, it would seem that DaveK's (and maybe Dove's too) experience of 964 ownership is one end of the bell curve. Some owners ( a few) have spent loads on their cars. Some have spent very little. The majority have spent somewhere in between!

It looks like Dave hit it on the head - previous owner neglect and limited knowledge of the car when he bought it. I was luckier than Dave - I had limited knowledge and previous owner didn't look after the car - but I was just a bit luckier.

As for Dove, well I expect his 964 experience was just karma....

Randall G.

Felix

Dear Dave,

About the air con. Did you have a problem with the condensor or the
compressor ? If it is "just" the condensor you can purschase some
parts and rebuild it with 1/2 days work.

BR,

Felix.

DaveK

Neither. The condensor was replaced a few years ago - but it's actually the evaporator I've been told I need now.

I'm going to get it looked at by an air con expert rather than my normal mechanic though since for the kind of money it costs to replace I wan't to be sure that's the problem.

springer3

Definitely get a second opinion before going after the evaporator.

I don't know who the OEM is for the 964 evaporator, but Behr provides the Mercedes E-class units. I examined the one that came from my car. The PO spent $1800 to replace it, and it did not fix the leak. Behr evaporators are a robust design, and I doubt many of them leak. Nonetheless the $1800 evaporator replacement is very common in older Mercedes, and I suspect not needed in the majority of cases.

I finally found the leak, and it was the compressor shaft seal - also a difficult place to leak-check.

DaveK

I am getting someone else to check it - but I need to talk to him and find out how he is going to check. I think I want somebody to use dye in the system and find the leak that way - I will be very unhappy if I spend all that money and it wasn't the evaporator.

I actually spoke to someone about it today - since I realised there is an air con service centre around the corner from me. They said that they would gas it with dye and let me drive around for a week, then look to see where it's leaking - and that would be £60. That didn't sound too bad - until they told me that if it was the evaporator, then it was a lot of labour to replace because "it's behind the heater system and the whole dash has to come out". Really? Somehow I don't think I'll be taking it there!