C4TT

Not sure, but have put much thought into it. Will be testing the Lotus in the coming weeks. Any input?

Greg

Kahdmus

Yup, dont it!

John Boggiano

Greg,

A year ago, I owned an Elise for twelve months alongside my 964, so I'm well placed to answer this.

The Elise is a VERY pure driving machine. A real breath of fresh air. The responses are so direct and instantaneous, it's like a four-wheeled motorcycle.

It noisy, though (and not a nice noise) and fragile/flimsy and uncomfortable. You have to suffer somewhat for that driving purity.

I actually bought it thinking it might 'replace' the 964. But there's no way it could. The 964 is such a complete car. Brilliant at so many things and has so many different facets to its greatness.

The Elise is an incredibly focussed tool. Such a buzz! But, ultimately, just a tool.

I wrote a comparison of 964 and Elise, which is called 'Chalk and Cheese?' - there's a link to it on my website.

C4TT

John,
Thanks so much for your input.
My motivation comes from several fronts. I only drive weekends, so a car is merely a pleasureable perk, not a necessity.
I believe the version coming to the US will have a different motor from the Rover you had. We will receive a Toyota Celica motor. The car is also supposed to have other creature comforts added to cator to the American market. ie Heat, Air Conditioning, Stereo, electric windows etc...
I also believe the have a comfort package which extra sound deadening..

The bottom line is I am testing one in a few weeks to formulate an opinion.
My car is very high strung, and can be costly if it has issues. I also love the idea of warranty, and new car which I have never had(though it is overrated)

I will do an archive search on the "cheese" lotus!

Thanks again,

Greg

joey bagadonuts

Nice choice, Greg. This car is also on my short list of worthy 964 replacements. At $40K, it certainly offers a lot of performance for the money but it's just a little light on grunt, 190 bhp and 133 lb ft. After driving that beast of yours, I can just see you smashing the pedal into the floor during your test drive just "waiting" for something to happen.

The folks at Road & Track gave it high marks in their Nov-03 issue, but they did note that it was virtually impossible to get the tail out "unless you overcook it into a corner and lift abruptyly." Another suggestion that it may suffer from an inadequate power plant. Finally, the whole thing is a tad smaller than a Mazda Miata (MX-5) which simply makes it too cute for round town motoring. Do you think Stephanie Seymour would give you a second glance in one of those?

Okay, the 2,000-lb curb weight provides stellar performance--0-60 in 4.8 and a 12-second 1/4 mile--but I think you'll be disappointed with its lack of low-end pull. For you, I think the only reasonable replacement would be a GT3.

tonytaylor

Re: Elise, on a tight circuit they are slow - you will need 160bhp in an Elise to match a semi track prep'd 964, on an open circuit they are really slow, you will struggle to keep up with 190bhp. Anything above 160bhp and the K-series engine is a grenade and you will struggle to see 30K/3K road/track miles per engine.

Cannon fodder/mobile chicanes

ETA oops missed the Toyota bit - obviously will be more reliable. Apparently weight is up for US models so no performance gains - look forward to passing one at a circuit near me soon.

AsianBond

Quite expensive in the states for a jazz up go-kart, there are much better alternatives for value for money. It's an ideal car if you're under the 25 age bracket and don't car much about comfort and practicality. Nice for a few dates but if you're going to marry one you're bound to have an eye out for an extra-martial affair real quick.

Wow for 40k, you can get a nice Z4, new SLK, strip Boxster, etc....or even 993s or 996s that you can strip out and set up for the track. Nothing beats the feeling of real horsepower under your right feet. Elise are pretty much useless in city driving with only highways and ninety degree turns around. They only shine on the track or on the curvies.

I smoke them all the time on the highways in HK (can't get rid of them on the twisties though).

warmfuzzies

Guys,

The "federalised" Elise will have 190bhp from its Toyota engine according to the (I think) EVO I read, it will also have heat/air con, radio and some other tarted up bits.
It also has the strange side repeaters the US demands on cars which look a bit odd, but hey.....
Apart from that the driving should be the same.
I've driven them (the UK spec) twice, both times around Silverstone, and I think they lack power for longer circuits funny enough, and the twisty flowing circuits are where they scored well.
But as for one on the road, nah, far and away too sensitive to road surfaces for me, every single bump would come crashing through the cabin, and then revereberate round the shell.

Track tool=brilliant.
Road tool= err no thanks.

Kevin

DavidI

Take the test drive and you'll forget all about power to weight ratios and 0-60 times. No other car comes close to the purity of driving response as an Elise. My first one had the original 118bhp engine and I couldn't have cared less that it had a top speed of around 120mph - in the Elise 30mph feels like a blast! Honestly, it is the perfect car for roads where speed traps abound and which are overcrowded.
Most modern cars are designed to make 70mph feel like 30, and the only thrill you get is from driving like a maniac. The Elise turns that around on it's head - it makes 30mph feel like you're driving at 70mph, and not in a way that it's such a rough uncompromising, badly set-up beast that you need to be a hero to tame it, just that it's repsonses are so pure and un-sullied by 'normal' car considerations that every input you make or you feel through the seat and the wheel has an effect.
They're no longer the bargain they were when new (1996) but you're getting a lot more car now than you were then (air-con in an Elise?!?) and the same principles apply - lightweight, decent power-to weight, purity of response.
I sold my first one when I started my small business (didn't think a Lotus cut the right image when going cap in hand to the bank) and my second last year to fund the 964. I had two problems with the Elise; first, as a strict 2-seater I very rarely got to use it with my wife or daughters, only when I needed to pick one daughter up from a party or similar, and secondly the lightweight battery Lotus fitted would go flat after a few days of inactivity. The battery was awkward to get to and charging it was a nuisance. There were ways around this - I could have fitted a more powerful battery, or invested in a solar charger and a bit of wiring. Ultimately I decided the Elise made me feel a bit selfish as I was usually going out on my own, particularly at weekends when I would go for blasts just to keep the battery charged.
Elise owners are well used to the Porsche crowd taunts 'smoked you on the straights' etc. what non-Elise drivers never quite got was that fun is not directly proportional to speed; I don't think there is another car out there that offers as much fun as the Elise. Try it!
Check out http://www.british-cars.co.uk/cgi-bi...nprog=lotusbbs - it's a good resource!

DaveK

A while ago, Riccardo was also tempted to sell his 964 for an Elise. He posted on here after he'd tried it, and as I recall one of the main things that put him off was the build quality. He said that it was very plastic on the inside and not very well built.

On the other hand - he doesn't hang about on here anymore because he eventually did sell and bought a mini.

Do you get the VX220 in the States? From what I've heard, they are actually better cars than the Elise - and designed by Lotus even though they are badged as Vaxhaull (Which I'm not sure you do get there?).

warmfuzzies

Built by Lotus as well Dave.

The magazines here in the UK certainly seem to like them, but I think Vauxhall have an image crisis they need to overcome first.

Kevin

Farp

And of course, the VX220 comes with a turbocharger and 200bhp as standard. According to the Autocar 0-100-0 article (mentioned on another thread), there is a VX220 Sprint due out later this year (237bhp and 0-100-0 in 15.75s). Handling on the VX220 is supposed to be on a par with the Elise (as you'd expect). Who cares if it's a Vauxhall - the build quality is supposedly superior as Vauxhall are more picky with the QA (allegedly).

Mike

warmfuzzies

Hmmm, who cares if it's a Vauxhall.

I would suggest that the buying public probably do, I see Elises all day long, yet nary a Vauxhall do I see.

It's not my problem, just others....

I still like the Elise, and it will marvel you with its handling. I just couldn't live with the slightly harsh ride on the roads where I live.

Kevin

Farp

You're right Kevin - it was a bit of a flipant comment. Apart from anything else I imagine the depreciation on the Vauxhall will hit you harder than the Elise (though they're not holding their value like they used to). I see a VX220 on my way to work most days and the driver generally has a grin on his face. I love the way it looks but being 6'4" I would have to take the roof off or risk a hernia every time I got in the thing.

For those of you not fortunate enough to live in the UK (or ROE where you can get it branded as an Opel Speedster or something like that), you can see the car we're talking about here: http://vauxhall.co.uk/microsites/vx220Turbo/intro.jhtml

Mike

Arjan B.

Hey,

We sell the Opel Speedster www.opel.com overhere, it's on a same base as the Elise. Fun driving for 1 hour, after that, you will get bored.
You could buy one next to the 964, but instead of, I would not advise you to do so.

Your decision.