spooky69

I've just fitted new wheels - 7's at ET55 on the front compared to 7.5 ET65 Cup 1s before. 225/45 Cup 2 Connect tyres.

The front wheel is visually very close to the front of the fender. I suspect it was this close before but disguised by the difference in the ET figures between the wheels.

The front had an 18mm spacer with the 7.5 wheel and I've left it on for the time being.

Visually it would probably look better further back in the wheel arch, but my understanding is that more caster is better for handling on these cars.

I could remove the spacer and that would probably improve the visuals from the side but it doesn't look like it's sticking out too far? I’ve not driven it yet.

The rear has a 15mm spacer and the wheel is 9 ET55 with 255/40 tyres.

Thoughts?

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dmaddox

Spooky,

I am running a similar setup - but with 18" (ET 50 in the front, no spacer.....and ET65 in the rear with a 15mm spacer). I have the same visual you speak of...VERY close to the front of the wheel arch....with 3" of space in the rear.

I also wondered if this was normal, an it does appear to be, but with our Fuch's it is magnified...maybe? I'd suggest not spacing the front out as much, maybe 5mm?

Laurus

Hello,
At first I would change spacers .
Front 15 mm , rear 18 mm.
I have rear 9 Et55 with 18 mm
Front 7,5 Et65 with 15mm. No issu.
Vlado from Slovakia

Goughary

Your 18mm spacer is exaggerating your caster.

So the wheel is father forward than it would be...so check your settings for camber caster and toe.

Fwiw...I'm my opinion, 18mm is too much for a 7/55 front wheel, but it's entirely subjective. I wouldn't go much farther than 7mm without making a change to a set of 993 components (which being the wheels out father). What's not subjective is how that will affect the alignment and the way the car drives/handles...so play with it a bit.

Tomfun

I don't believe adding spacers changes anything with the alignment, caster included. I think being low with shiny new wheels pushed out towards your fender makes how close the tire/wheel sits to the front of the wheel well more obvious. Fwiw I have 17x7 ET55 + 17mm of spacers and no issues. If your alignment settings are correct then it's just an optics issue would be my two cents.

Tom

spooky69

I think you're right. It's good to know you have no issues with 17mm - it makes me think 18mm is probably fine.

I didn't think the rear needs to go out more but maybe the suggestion to swap the front 18mm spacers with the rear 15mm spacers is a good one.

The front don't particularly look like they are sticking out with the 18mm spacer. Looking from above the front and rear look quite similar in relation to the fenders. As the front wheel is narrower than the rear then front and rear would still be staggered, if I am using the correct word, even with the front spacer being marginally wider.

So, leave as it is and see how it drives, swap the front and rear spacers or just remove the front spacer. I think it might look a bit tucked in when compared with the front, so I think either leaving as it is or swapping them over are the best options.

Trying to remove the spacers might be interesting as they are bolted on.

spooky69

Is that due to stress on the components due to the size of the spacer? These are the spacers that were on the car when I got it with the 7.5 ET65 front Cup 1 wheel.

Would the spacer exaggerate caster due to a toe-in angle? Trying to understand how it all works...

Aesthetically, the front doesn't look pushed out too wide to my eyes.

spooky69

Your wheel sizes and spacers are exactly what I have with the Cup 1 wheels that the car came with.

Swapping the front and rear spacers seems like it could be a good idea, although there's only 3mm in it.

Goughary

When you push the wheel out on the hub, you aren't necessarily going straight out from center...there are angles involved. So if you look at a front suspension diagram and image as the wheel turns...not on its axis, but the axis where it is turning inboard...you will see clearly how the spacer affects things like camber caster and toe. You can dive deep, it's all very fascinating really...

That said, take the spacer off one wheel and take a pic and see if that moves the wheel back into place visually. I am not with your car, so can't make any comment as to what is right or wrong or how your car handles...

If it really is "forward", you can look to the rest of the parts- top hats, sub frames, etc. maybe something in the install is either set differently than stock or the sun frames install on the outer setting...but my guess is the visual forward stance is being created by the wide spacing.
If all else is installed correctly- it is "right" to have the caster adjusters at or near max.

Tomfun

Not looking to get into an argument, but while adding a spacer will change the steering arc path of a wheel, it will not change camber, caster or toe as measured in an alignment; 1° remains 1° even if you add a 1 meter spacer.

If you have excessive toe in, however, adding a spacer will move the outside leading edge of the tire forward.

Tom

spooky69

Ok, I read the German TUV incorrectly - 15mm up front and 18mm in the rear. That makes a lot more sense. Apologies for the red herring.

The difference in ET between the old wheel and the new wheel is 10mm, but the old wheel was 7.5 instead of 7 on the new wheel, so the new wheel should only be about 4mm closer to the fender than the old one.

A 5mm spacer would put the front wheel in pretty much the same place it was with the old wheel. No spacer would only be 5mm further in of course.

I believe 5mm is the maximum spacer that can safely be used with original studs or should new studs be used?

Is it difficult to change the studs if need to do so? I seem to remember reading a post about someone doing this and it looked like a potential pain in the backside.

I think I'll probably need to take the front spacer off, see how it looks and then put a 5mm spacer on if I feel that it needs it. It doesn't particularly look like it's too far out though.

Thanks for the help guys.

964Luftballoon

Any spacer larger than 5mm you want to run longer wheel studs. Unless of course you use spacers that have extended lugs. Pic below for reference

spooky69

My current spacers are that type.

I think 5mm would probably be about right but I'll have another look tomorrow and figure out what I want to do.

Ecosse911

Correct, a wheel spacer on the 964 will not change caster. On newer 911’s where the lower suspension consists of a control arm and thrust arm a wider track change by the adjusting out “length” of the lower control arm will adjust the caster as well as the camber. Simply due to the fact that the thrust arm and strut top are fixed so the wheel center moves forward as you extend out the track width. I went down this rat hole on my 991 as it had center Locks and I wanted a wider track. I had to go full adjustable on LCA’s and thrust arms to correct the caster (stock already has adjustable strut tops). If I had spec’d 5lugs then I could have spaced out the track on my 991 with wheel spacers with no effect to the caster as it’s just projecting out the same geometry.

I am about to embark on a complete suspension /‘ geometry change on my 964.

spooky69

This is with no spacers on the front. They came off easily. I don’t think the previous owner usually took the back spacers off because they are on there very solidly and I think I’ll need an impact wrench if I want to remove the 18mm and replace it with 15mm that was on the front. The caster looks better but it does look a bit more tucked and especially compared to the back.

I have them torqued to 130NM – it doesn’t seem to take much effort…