F/51 LRS

About 8 years ago I caught the Porsche bug. I had historically been a BMW fan (and still really enjoy the marque), but thought I should try something different. So I traded my e92 in for a 996 C2 in seal gray. That started a slippery slope the included a 997.1 C2S, 996TT, 986 Boxster, and eventually my current 964 C4 and Cayenne GTS.

At the time I decided I wanted an air cooled 911 I owned the 996TT (which is one of the best performance per dollar cars ever), which my wife loved! But, ever the understanding spouse she is she supported my decision to get an older, louder, slower, smellier car.
So, I found one that was in my price range with modifications I wanted, flew from WA to MN and drove it back.
It had JRZ-RS1 coilovers, lovely BBS LM wheels, 993SS cams, and a secondary bypass pipe. Nice and tasteful.

After driving it as is for a while I started wanting to upgrade/repair/modify the car.
So, I added a primary bypass pipe, DAS bolt in roll bar, fixed back seats, RS door cards, RS carpet, ducktail, Elephant racing adjustable droplinks, trailing arm bushings, spring plate bushings, control arm bushings, 993 brakes, gutted proportioning valve, new RE71Rs, an alignment and corner balance.

This is bringing me to a bit of a crossroad; the car isn't a DD, but it is streetable/street legal and will never be a race car. It spends most of the time in the garage or on the track doing DEs; occasionally doing cars and coffee and spirited drives.
Living in Houston there aren't a lot of good options for fun twisty roads somewhat close.

So, the crossroad I am at is what next? Knowing the intent/direction of the car I don't want it to go too far down the rabbit hole, but am constantly chasing lap times/having fun.
I want to do a LWFW, clutch, Wong chip, and drop the engine to do a top end reseal.
I have also been kicking around the idea of doing a C2 conversion similar to Number 27 ( )

I'm unsure exactly what the end goal for the car is, and I'm not necessarily sure that's a bad thing. Wanted to get your guys' thoughts and feedback.
Here's a picture at COTA next to my friend's GT4


Thanks,
Joe

SR20Fastback

I have a similar-ish dilemma, however my car is already a C2. It sounds like you have your DD situation sorted out, and don’t have any plans to get rid of the 964. So I vote keep chasing the lap times, and pursuing what makes you happy.

I agree with the “it will never be a race car” sentiment, but doesn’t mean it can’t be a great track weapon, and overly done weekend car.

Lorenzoh

sure, but your essentially destroying a 964 to make it a track car. If your chasing lap times, it’s a much better idea and safer, to just get a real race car. Lots of very nice 996 cup cars out there that are a blast to drive, will put down some great lap times and are built for the job. I’ve seen guys have some pretty big offs in street cars they thought were race cars and they did not walk away from it. Real race cars are built to protect the driver. Street cars of course can be fun on track but if your really chasing times and driving 10/10ths it’s a much better idea to do it in something that’s made for chasing those last hundredths of a second.

JesusFast

More photos of the BBS wheels.... and your car...

I love it!

JesusFast

Never mind found it!

F/51 LRS

This is a fair assessment and concern. When I say chasing lap times, I'm not driving 10/10ths because it is a street car, and it's 2,800 lbs, street tires, etc... but I definitely do drive 8.5/10ths.

I do disagree with "destroying a 964", one person's concourse car is another's track weapon. I couldn't care less about nice paint quality, a zip tie or two here or there when needed, etc...and I have no plans on selling the car to anyone in the future so am building it to what I want it to be. But, different strokes and all that.

After sleeping on it a bit more, I think I found a decent definition for what I'm envisioning; effectively an air cooled GT3. I don't have the budget (or anything resembling it) for something as extreme as a Singer type build, but the intent of a lightened, more powerful, focused street/track compromise car seems to encompass what I'm thinking.

Now, just come the next steps and "final iteration" ...eventually.

Some things I'm either planning or kicking around:

• LWFW
• Steve Wong Chip
• Remove A/C to make room for second oil cooler
  • I'm on the fence about this one, but considering the car is mostly on the track/Sunday drives/Cars and coffee it may not be so bad?
• Re-gear transmission; the gears are too long and too far apart
• Eventually I'm thinking about ITBs
  • Anyone reading this that has made the transition and have candid feedback?
• When it comes time to rebuild I'll keep it 3.6, but will probably go down the rabbit hole of lightening as much mass as possible

The awesome thing about this forum is there are people with different visions and from all walks of life that can lend advise, provide feedback, and talk people off the ledge when they want to LS swap their car.
Thanks for those that have weighed in and I look forward to hearing from many more of you.

F/51 LRS

Thanks for the kind words! I love the car and enjoy having it a bit "different".

jeff33702

Happen to have a G50 for sale . I almost bought a C4 a while back with the intention to convert the existing awd to RWD. First, I had a hard time contacting the company in EU that supposedly sells the internal parts for the transmission that ties the input shaft back in once you’ve pulled the output shaft section...Second, there were still some electrical fixes and other unproven bits that I just didn’t feel like messing with. Decided to go with a C2 Tip, which is arguably much easier to swap than changing a C4 to a C2 (the cost is probably not too far off with the TIP conversion likely a little more expensive).

Anyway, I ended up with 2 G50 03 transaxles during my parts collection...so if you need one, one is for sale

SR20Fastback

Maybe I should have specified. I didn't mean chasing lap times quite like that. More about actually working on improving YOUR (my) lap times. While I agree with you about the safety aspect of a previously used race car, there are huge costs associated with upkeep on things measured in hours rather than thousands of miles. Not to mention not being able to register and drive to the track in it (if you weren't already trailering your car).

Anyways, while your way does sound like a ton of fun, it's not for everyone. I'm perfectly happy with tracking my car as is, and while it's far from a concours winner, it's still in decent shape and all of the mods I've done are reversible if I were forced to sell.


Agreed. Something a little lighter, a little tauter, and a tiny bit more umph. I think you've got the recipe nailed down.

964Luftballoon

Hi J,

First off car looks great! Now it might not be for everyone as the "get out and drive sentiment" rings true but hope to see you at one of the PCA GTG's. I typically go to the first of the month at Paper City and would love to meet you and see the car in person!

Second, based on your original post I think and what my mechanic (Jordan @ Modern Aircooled) thinks is if you're going to chase lap times and want a really fun track car get a Miata. It's not much in terms of buy-in and can be loads of fun. I plan to DE and AutoX in the near future in my C4 and if the bug bites I might be looking at a miata as well haha.

Third, DO get the LWFW and Steve Wong chip. I absolutely love it and I'm decent at driving a manual but certainly not a pro. I'm planning on getting a FD SSK soon to shorten the throws and replace the plastic oem cup system that tends to wear over time.

In regards to A/C...GOOD LUCK! I have no A/C as my CCU isn't working and I'm DYING when I drive. (Mind you i'm an idiot and will drive it all hours of the day on a weekend)

Ryan

2swoosh

The lightest you can possibly make it and the most powerful air cooled motor you can build (4.4?) is the right formula in my book. Just don't make it prettier as thieves will ****** it in a heartbeat. Modded cars done the right way sells.

F/51 LRS

Hey Ryan,
Admittedly I don't get out to many of the GTGs; I'm over in Memorial so I usually go to the second Saturday. But, I'll see if I can free up the 6th to head over that way. I know Jordan, I've had my car worked on there a number of times. I have had Miatas in the past and they're great fun, if I were to build a race car it would probably be a SM due to cost of entry and quantity of cars to race against, BUT....not what I'm looking for with this build/car.

My CCU is on the fritz, too, so that's another box checked for pulling the A/C. We'll see on that, though. If that's your guards red car in your avatar it looks good!

964Luftballoon

Yup that's mine! Thanks! You've probably seen it sitting in Jordans over the holidays. They did a full rebuild on the engine. (I just realized I think you commented on my thread LOL)

No worries, My wife and I typically like to get up and drive early on the weekends to stretch the cars legs more than the typical gym visits during the week. I go to the Katy meet sometimes but it's brutal b/c there is no shade which is why I prefer the 1st meet hahah.

Ah perfect so you know all about the fun miata go karts haha. For what you want to do with the 964 have you checked out Spyrexx's thread? He's done quite a bit and to me it seems to be the perfect blend of street/track/canyon carver car. Might give you some inspiration. Have you thought about adding 993 cams to your car? Or maybe go down the rabbit hole like Carl's car (Daffy) and have the GT3 manifold with the center exhaust?

F/51 LRS

The no shade is brutal, especially now that it’s getting hotter.

I have 993ss cams in the car currently, that’s one reason I’m thinking ITBs. I’ve checked out Speyrx’ thread, might need to dive in deeper.

I know Carl and Daffy very well. That car is a monster and is my main inspiration. I don’t quite have Daffy funds as it sits, but would like to emulate his build over time.

Shoot me a PM, maybe we can grab a coffee outside the GTGs.

Goughary

Both of you guys need to join msr houston. We need more 964 there. Aka, i have yet to see even one.

As to building a track car- if you buy one that is already done, you'll likely save some money. But this likely won't happen as you already have your car.

A properly sorted C4 if the weight were equal, would mop the track with a C2 all day long. But I'm a C4 guy, so i am biased. I much prefer them. C2 are fun, but C4 are way more technical and fun to drive - and if you get out in the rain, a total blast...(yes the C2 half of the rennlist world now hates me)

Now getting to real stuff. Building a proper track car out of a street car and keeping it streetable is a real balancing act.

So here is where i would start. Take out as much weight as you can. Strip the interior and sound insulation and only add back what you need.

Reinforce the engine carrier and go with wevo blue pillow mounts.

Install a rollbar if you are going to drive hard. Install a cage if you are going to drive very hard.
Don't even think about driving without a cage if you are driving where there is close racing or passing is allowed.

Then go to suspension - much of which will come down to cost- but figure out what your budget is and sort the suspension.

Get the lightest wheels you can find, that can still handle hitting curbs hard at the track. (Or you will have bent wheels), but light weight here means a lot.

Stick with the oem brakes unless you are going 100% on the full suspension build.

Get a better set of brake pads that have much better initial bite and modulation at temp. Aka track pads.

Get VERY good track tires, and swap them for new after every few weekends at the track.

Then. If you still want more. Start to think about horsepower. But if you don't have a car worth adding horsepower to, don't think about it until the rear is done. And then think carefully, as it gets very expensive for not a lot of gain. While the engine is out, maybe think of lw flywheel and regearing the trans.

I know not a lot of that has any real detail...but that's the general direction i would give. Details can be taken care of along the way and really change dramatically based on time and money and what you look to achieve on the track and on the street and the balance btw the two.