3.6 Cases will be available for Pre-Order starting March 14th
 

For those who have not been following the "I am making reproduction cases thread", which incidentally can be found here, my 3.6 cases will be available for preorder starting March 14th, but ONLY for those who filled out an interest card on my site, which can be found at the bottom of this page.

I haven't posted much in this forum because I am assuming that most of you with 964s already have running engines, but for those of you with rollers or even rare cars that you want to preserve the matching numbers motor on, there is now another option, my case!

All of the relevant information is either on my site or in the very lengthy thread I mentioned earlier.

There will only be 40 cases offered at $5000 each, after that pricing goes to retail levels.

Thanks for your interest!

I have no need for a case, but man, is this ever cool. Makes me feel quite inferior as a mechanical engineer. Great work!

Just because I like new things... I'd be tempted to sell my current engine (that needs a rebuild..and I plan 3.8+ anyway) and start with a new case. BUT, I'd feel like a fool if I did that in preparation and the product never came to fruition.

I'm curious to know what the next stage is, that will require this influx of money?..as in, what's the hold up? :) It seems if you've made a prototype, the next step would be to get that prototype to the running stage. It certainly seems like you've spent a ton of time and your own money on this - I'm sure it's not cheap, so I can appreciate the request for interested parties to put their money on the line. I want to see this happen so badly - I think a running example would really fuel the fire for people.

I am not sure if you read the thread or not, I am assuming you skimmed over the thing. Spend on the case project was $600,000. The first 40 cases are being sold at $5000 with a REFUNDABLE $1250 deposit to hold the slot. Prior to ANY case shipping, the prototype motor will be put in one of my cars and tested.

Most of the first 40 will be spoken for based upon the contact I have been having with customers prior to the release of the preorder link. So if you want to see one / touch one / hear one running prior to ordering, GREAT! Case #41 starts at $6995, and the fire is already fueled. If you want to get into the action at an introductory price, then that is what this preorder thing is for.

Seen too many great ideas and endeavors never make it to final fruition. It really seems like you're skipping a seemingly required step. I'm going to assume that you're wanting the commit from X# of people in order to proceed/fund the first manufacturing run. Just a little more information would go a long way. Maybe I missed it but if you said something like, "I'm gauging serious interest by accepting deposits...Next, I will build/test the prototype engine before sending the order to the factory for the 40 units."..that would be helpful. The way it reads to me is that the units might be manufactured, then you will test, then you will ship/charge for the final units. If that's the case (and if not, my apologies), I'd be hesitant to be in the first batch of technically untested prototypes.

I am wondering if you read anything I wrote. I already mentioned that before any of the 40 were delivered, we'd run and test one. Also, there is no factory. I am the factory, these are made at MY machine shop. Next, I don't need you to write my ad copy for me, I said what I said, and as this is a legitimate group buy thread by a Rennlist site sponsor in accordance with forum rules, you should not be thread crapping this post. All of the information you seek is on my website and the exhaustive thread posted up in the first post of this thread.

Most every serious Porsche engine builder in the country is preordering one, and the list of individuals is lengthy. The confidence in the product and my ability to deliver has rarely if ever arisen on this forum, except for now, when I am actually on the cusp of delivering the first cases.

Lastly, I am not going to bother trying to convince you of the merits of my case, because I will not be selling you one. Ever.

Thanks for looking.

I personally know Catorce (had the pleasure of selling his son a 40th anniversary 911) and he is an absolute gentleman and Porsche enthusiast to the core. He was committed to this project for several years working on perfecting these cases, congrats on getting it going and running, Best of luck with this endeavor.

Nice attitude. If reading comprehension is in question, it's not on this end. You just confirmed my concerns. "I already mentioned that before any of the 40 were delivered, we'd run and test one.". So you're going to build them all, then test one, then deliver? No thanks. You've put a lot of effort and certainly money into this. $600,000..and you're 1- going to test ONE engine? and 2- for some reason will not test an engine before getting pre-orders?

Too bad, I would have considered being a customer, just not the first batch customer - I don't make enough money for that. But now my feelings are hurt because you're never...ever...sell me one.

Well he doesn't come off that way here. I don't wish anything bad on anyone, especially an enthusiast. I hope it works out, but when a potential customer has legitimate questions about what exactly is being purchased.. and you act like a child..you get what you get.

Really cool to see someone doing this - and disappointing to see someone crapping all over it.

Jeez. Certainly didn't think that wanting to know more about the process that could cost me $1250 would cause so much grief. I'm not afraid to confess that I'm barely in the Porsche project income bracket - I ask questions about where my money goes because I have a limited amount of it. I've been on a few forums over the years and when a vendor comes in with a cool product, they should be able to field a few questions without getting bent out of shape, IMO. Believe me or not - I'm on-board for this kind of product..a potential future customer (or not at this point) and any feedback I send is purely to give my view as a consumer and to hopefully help out. I stand by my assertion that most people would be much more forthcoming with deposits if there was a running example. With so much invested, I'd be dumb not to ask the question.

Best of luck, I'm out.

O

For the benefit of anyone else reading this, I had made it abundantly clear in the thread that (and let me break it down for you):
1. We would finish the programming to ensure consistency and repeatability
2. We would create one, build it into a motor, and test it while the 40 buyers patiently waited and followed the progress of the build
3. After testing, we would take what we have learned and modify the program, if required, and make the final design changes
4. Finally, we would deliver the 40 cases.

I can see I had to give you the paint by numbers version of this, but I thought it was obvious from the posts that you didn't read.

And no, you won't get one. Promise!

This project, which I have subsidized fully with my own money will go to deserving folks who can appreciate that if you divide $600k by 40, you get a lot more than $5000.There are no 3.6 cases out there. That is a problem which I decided to fix.

Thanks Tarek! Keep in touch buddy hope all is well with you!

Fantastic. I had looked at the website you linked before I even posted and none of these details were there but thank you for the clarification. I do think it's pretty weird to get all worked up because someone has more sense than money and wanted to ask some questions on the public forum that you advertised on.

Catorce- I just read your thread.. surprised I havent' seen it sooner. Amazing and admirable work done on your cases. Having just built a motor with Rothsport, I think I would have gone for an all new case if that were an option at the time. So I could just swap in a motor and keep my original. I pretty much have everything for a stock motor sitting in parts.

Also something you might think about now that you have a brand spanking new 5 Axis mill.... Is Performance heads to go along with the case? I know Ollies is backed up by about 3-4 months if you are wanting machine work done on you motor. This will solve all the headaches and delays.

Good luck with this.. If I am ever in need of another engine build... I'll be going this route.

Thank you Erik for the kind words!

We've actually been asked to do head work for a 3 valve prototype so we might be doing that, but in the mean time the mill is more or less devoted to the case project. After the first 40 are done we will take a breath and see what other cool things we can build, and then get back on the 3.6 and develop the GT3 / turbo case.

The situation you described is exactly why I did this project in the first place!

Why Flat Is Important
 

You might be wondering why we obsess over something so elementary as an object being flat. It's pretty simple - mostly, when you are sending out your old factory cases to be machined back to spec, what they are doing is restoring the flatness of the case. Shops like Ollies, like Competition Engineering (Walt Watson) are mainly concerned with making the case mating surfaces flat as well as the cylinder spigot faces flat. Heat and age conspire to warp these surfaces ever so slightly.

But my premise is that they were never really that flat to begin with. As I have pointed out before, factory tolerances are pretty loose.

Also, the method these Porsche shops use to restore flatness is pretty primitive as well - they use a flat honing stone that is scraped against the surface to restore flatness. It comes back fairly flat, but it requires a talented machinist to do it, and that's why there is such a huge backlog at these shops.

Candidly, our level of initial flatness blows any shop away. See for yourself in the attached picture. You'll see sharpie marks right on the case that Harman marked after we cut this one. The notations are in tenths. For you non machinists, here are the way these are measured:

- The average human hair measures .004"

- One thousandth of an inch is .001"

- we are measuring in tenths, which is .0001"

So when Harman writes +4 in sharpie, what he is saying is .0004" which is one tenth the thickness of a human hair! Oh, and that is our worst measurement. Most of them are zero, meaning we can't measure any further.

Pretty insane.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...d1b613831c.jpg

Thank you. There are two ways we use to check flatness, and we always use both because Harman won't be satisfied with just one method of measurement. I like to joke that he makes his bed with a measuring tape and checks the flatness of his dinner table before eating.

The first method we use is a mitutoyo dial indicator (all of our measuring tools are mitutoyo brand, they are the best) that is loaded into the machines spindle. This gauge is accurate to tenths. We do what's called "tramming" whereby we run the indicator along a flat surface and log where the needle moves and note the flatness. This alone would be more than enough to satisfy factory tolerances which are measured in thousandths, not tenths.

Then, we use the probe that is connected to the machine. The probe is made by Renishaw and is a highly accurate computerized locating system with a stylus that is tipped with a Ruby. The probe is also loaded into the spindle and is used to measure the height, depth, circumference or whatever you want. Renishaw claims the probe is accurate to 1 micrometer, which is a tenth of a tenth.....!!!!! I have no reason to doubt it .

That's how we do it. Mainly we use the two measurements to check each other, and we use expensive certified test blocks to check and calibrate the instruments . It's laborious but worth it.

"We do what's called "tramming" whereby we run the indicator along a flat surface..."

ah... so how/who checks the flat surface is a flat surface? :)

Making sure something is flat or square starts with some assumptions that must be made. To ensure the cylinder surface is flat, we have to assume the case mating surface is flat. To assume the case mating surface is flat, we have to assume the fixture plate is flat. To assume the fixture plate is flat, we have to assume the machine's table is flat. To assume the machine's table is flat, we have to assume the machine is calibrated and properly leveled.

There are a lot of assumptions here, but we can't assume anything until it's checked and verified. So when I got this new machine, Haas was there for a week to ensure machine level and calibration, covered here https://www.taorminaracingdesigns.com/the-latest/

Leveling and calibration is performed with special laboratory grade test blocks which are known (and certified) to be flat. We then adjust accordingly.

Every single one of those assumptions I mentioned above represents 2-3 days of work per step to make sure that each stage creates a flat surface.

Of course, nothing *stays* flat, at these levels, even temperature makes a difference. But it becomes much much faster to check all of this when you have a good baseline. At this point we can do all of our checks in the morning just after the machine warm up routine and it takes less than 30 mins to ensure we start with a flat and square surface and then all the day's production begins.

We check the machine twice per day......

Well folks, there you have it. We took 30 preorders today, meaning there are only 10 left at the $5000 price. I honestly still can't believe it. Our order pool is made up of enthusiasts and world renowned engine builders and everyone in between. Thanks Rennlist for your support, and a big thank you to those that ordered. I honestly didn't think this many would order and the faith you guys have in me is humbling.

Stay tuned for more updates on this thread as well as my site's news tab for more.

Did you miss out? Still 10 left at $5000 and those will be open to the general public TOMORROW on my website. After those 10 are gone, price goes up.

I found this video mesmerizing. I'd show this off more prominently, as it really gives a feel for how much planning, work and expense has gone into the project - and how much individual time is required for each casting. You don't often get this much insight into a manufacturing process.

Thank you! If you think the casting is a lot of work, just wait until you see the machining.....

We're actually going to make a video showing that part as well.

:corn: Subscribed

this absolutely incredible and proof of dedication. Cannot wait to see the final product.

^Thanks, I guess I kept going long past the point that I should've turned back :roflmao:

Well at least that part was true! Ironic foreshadowing?

I was lucky I picked up one of the factory cases without serialization I am keeping for a future project. Absolutely nothing wrong wit what the factory made. I wouldn't trust what i see here.

It is sad that nothing was done about this and rennlist allows sponsors to screw people over. He took in about what he had invested and now crickets.

I tried to help as his foundry had no clue to what they were doing and made one amateurish mistake after another. I wish I was still in the foundry business (actually retirement is better) maybe it is time to reconsider I have a friend who has one of the best foundries in the US and we can do both mag and aluminum. Just don't have the capital or time to invest with so many other projects going on.

I have a case to build and the engine in my car so I'm set for now - but I was still interested in one of these from a "no compromise" hot rod build perspective...but saw some red flags early on..and the lashing out at what I thought were legit questions and concerns was another indicator of what we were dealing with here. The exciting part was that it wasn't complete vaporware - these were real pictures, and he was spending real money to achieve a goal. He was online just yesterday (you can see in the profile)..so he's aware of the chatter...he's posted excuses before about his email not working or him being locked out of his account here... With any luck, something will still work out for those who spent money.