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B&B or M&K Exhaust

 
Old 11-18-2018, 01:51 AM
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simonstorey
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Default B&B or M&K Exhaust

I'm contemplating a new exhaust for my 91 C4.
Currently has Fabspeed which I've never been happy with.

Anyone have any experience or opinion with either B&B or M&K?

I'm planning to replace everything form the cat back (incl cat) with twin out, but could maybe go for a full replacment
with new headers as well.

Thanks
s
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:27 AM
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Michael D'Silva
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Is the fabspeed just a single in?
What are you not happy about, with the Fabspeed.. just the note?

Reason I ask is I am also looking to upgrade my entire system. I bought an M&K "sport" muffler for my 1977 911, and it is frickin loud and drones like crazy. I've just ordered some different tips with baffles in them which Brian says should tame the drone... in hindsight, I should have ordered their new "street" muffler (which was released publicly only days after I ordered mine).
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Old 11-18-2018, 09:46 AM
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cobalt
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Originally Posted by simonstorey View Post
I'm contemplating a new exhaust for my 91 C4.
Currently has Fabspeed which I've never been happy with.

Anyone have any experience or opinion with either B&B or M&K?

I'm planning to replace everything form the cat back (incl cat) with twin out, but could maybe go for a full replacment
with new headers as well.

Thanks
s
Aftermarket headers offer little gains on a stock engine and will change the curve more towards the higher rpms. IMO stay away from B&B. I have had them on many cars and they all had fitment problems and crack over time.

You can gain as much by just going with a cat delete and or 100 cell race cat a simple muffler like a magnaflow and chip. Will sound just as good and save a lot of money and offer nearly the same gains and sound. If you want dual tips you can have something fabricated.

The magnaflow is loud but more so outside the car and does not drone.
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:59 AM
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911 jared
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I went from a dual fabspeed stock heat exchangers/cat to a dual B&B with headers no cat.

I didnt like the sound the fabspeed made. The B&B is much better. Definitely louder. But it drowns in the cabin from 60mph-70mph.
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:15 PM
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simonstorey
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Originally Posted by Michael D'Silva View Post
Is the fabspeed just a single in?
What are you not happy about, with the Fabspeed.. just the note?

Reason I ask is I am also looking to upgrade my entire system. I bought an M&K "sport" muffler for my 1977 911, and it is frickin loud and drones like crazy. I've just ordered some different tips with baffles in them which Brian says should tame the drone... in hindsight, I should have ordered their new "street" muffler (which was released publicly only days after I ordered mine).
Yes the Fabspeed is single out although has a cap over the 2nd out which you can swap with a tip if you choose.
I'm not so happy with the quality and the sound is meh.
I installed their sport cat at the same time the muffler went in and that was terrible because of how it affected torque. It lasted a week on the car
then the rusty old original unit from the factory went back in. So much better.

I do like M&K because they can make you want you need (sport vs street) but also wanted to see what B&B was like.

Thanks

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Old 11-18-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
Aftermarket headers offer little gains on a stock engine and will change the curve more towards the higher rpms. IMO stay away from B&B. I have had them on many cars and they all had fitment problems and crack over time.

You can gain as much by just going with a cat delete and or 100 cell race cat a simple muffler like a magnaflow and chip. Will sound just as good and save a lot of money and offer nearly the same gains and sound. If you want dual tips you can have something fabricated.

The magnaflow is loud but more so outside the car and does not drone.

Thanks for the intel. I didn't think about Magnaflow. I have one of their mufflers on my 280Z and it sounds perfect so maybe it could work on the 964.
Can you recommend any particular unit? I'd really like to have dual out and have the FVD left side bumper already with the exhaust cutout.
I'll probably keep the cat because of California smog. Running Steve Wong already.

PS love your turbo!
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 911 jared View Post
I went from a dual fabspeed stock heat exchangers/cat to a dual B&B with headers no cat.

I didnt like the sound the fabspeed made. The B&B is much better. Definitely louder. But it drowns in the cabin from 60mph-70mph.
Luckily I don't spend much time in the 60-70mph range. In Los Angeles 55mph limit actually translates in to 80 mph traffic flow.
I wonder if your drone is because of the cat delete?

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Old 11-18-2018, 01:51 PM
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I can’t speak to the M&K system, but I have the B&B dual-in dual-out system and I don’t like it. The fitment is poor, it sets off car alarms, and the drone is annoying and occurs in a rev range where you’ll spend a lot of time. I wanted the look of dual outlet exhaust just like everyone else, but the truth is (as already mentioned) that these engines can usually perform/sound just as good with the stock headers, cat-delete, and a cup pipe. If we were smart, we’d all stick to these basic and comparatively cheap exhaust mods. I’ll also mention that at Rennsport I heard the new Fister-modified secondary muffler demo’d and it sounded pretty cool. So that’s what I’d recommend. For the sake of drivability, the only dual exhaust I’d go with on these cars is the one that came on 993s, which has it’s own challenges with flange orientation and muffler fitment. Hope this helps.


My B&B set-up.


993-style system on 964 RS 3.8


993 headers, fabricated muffler and resonators



Fuchs racing exhaust

Last edited by Moriartyhlms; 11-24-2018 at 12:38 PM. Reason: corrected brand on last picture
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:57 PM
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I have B&B headers and 2in-2out muffler, no cats, inherited from the previous owner. Mine is different than the pic above, it is a single large center muffler instead of 2 smaller ones. Fitment seems to be good and no cracks yet after over a decade + of use. When I purchased the 964 it had a stupid cone filter and it made the drone unbearable (drone is between 2,500-3,000 rpm). I then swapped to the OEM airbox and it totally changed everything, the exhaust is still loud but it minimized the drone greatly to where I really don't notice it much anymore, or perhaps I am going deaf? With that said, B&B is expensive for what it is, their customer service is pathetic, and I would look at other solutions if I were to buy a new exhaust today.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:12 PM
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simonstorey
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[QUOTE=Moriartyhlms;15439111]
I can’t speak to the M&K system, but I have the B&B dual-in dual-out system and I don’t like it. The fitment is poor, it sets off car alarms, and the drone is annoying and occurs in a rev range where you’ll spend a lot of time. I wanted the look of dual outlet exhaust just like everyone else, but the truth is (as already mentioned) that these engines can usually perform/sound just as good with the stock headers, cat-delete, and a cup pipe. If we were smart, we’d all stick to these basic and comparatively cheap exhaust mods. I’ll also mention that at Rennsport I heard the new Fister-modified secondary muffler demo’d and it sounded pretty cool. So that’s what I’d recommend. For the sake of drivability, the only dual exhaust I’d go with on these cars is the one that came on 993s, which has it’s own challenges with flange orientation and muffler fitment. Hope this helps.

Awesome. Thanks for the pics and words.
Fister looks great, and they are in CA too!
Any idea about pricing? The 964 muffler must be very new for them because it's not even listed on their website.

And it sounds like the consensus is negative on B&B...



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Old 11-18-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LPMM View Post
I have B&B headers and 2in-2out muffler, no cats, inherited from the previous owner. Mine is different than the pic above, it is a single large center muffler instead of 2 smaller ones. Fitment seems to be good and no cracks yet after over a decade + of use. When I purchased the 964 it had a stupid cone filter and it made the drone unbearable (drone is between 2,500-3,000 rpm). I then swapped to the OEM airbox and it totally changed everything, the exhaust is still loud but it minimized the drone greatly to where I really don't notice it much anymore, or perhaps I am going deaf? With that said, B&B is expensive for what it is, their customer service is pathetic, and I would look at other solutions if I were to buy a new exhaust today.
Cheers!
s
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:02 PM
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I have to echo the other comments in this thread - after listening to a lot of 964 exhausts, I've settled on stock headers and secondary with a cat delete and cup pipe.
Nice tone, no drone, and good power - none of the other combinations seem significantly better and all of them are significantly more expensive.
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by spartansix View Post
I have to echo the other comments in this thread - after listening to a lot of 964 exhausts, I've settled on stock headers and secondary with a cat delete and cup pipe.
Nice tone, no drone, and good power - none of the other combinations seem significantly better and all of them are significantly more expensive.
I totally agree with this although a lot of the stock components were gone when I bought the car.
So now I'm just looking for a muffler that I agree with.
Keeping it simple is good!

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Old 11-20-2018, 10:34 AM
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Totally agree with all the comments above, especially for stock engines.

To keep it simple, and get 95% of the gains and sound, follow these steps:
level one - drill air
level two - either primary (many different classic flat six sounds through the rev range with a really nice roar at the top) OR secondary muffler delete (deeper note through the rev range, with a gruff mechanical sound starting at 4K)
Car is louder, but totally acceptable in most surroundings, and people think that's probably how loud an old Porsche normally is.
level three - cat delete. Car is 10 -20% louder all the time, people know you've changed something on the exhaust. You'll also hear more mechanical noise, with the fat cat and heat shield removed. Throttle response seemed better, occasional off throttle crackles.
level four - get louder and more direct in the car (give the outside world break), with stiffer motor and trans mounts, remove the engine sound pad and replace back seat panel with a lightweight carpet set. Lose a combined weight of over 50 lbs at this point too!
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Old 11-22-2018, 03:44 PM
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I can't recommend B&B. I've gotten several sets of their 914-6 headers with heat and 80% of them have had issues.

Keep it stock. If Porsche could've gotten another 7HP from a different exhaust, don't you think they would've done it? With all the money they spend on developing engines, do you think they leave much on the table?
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