Lorenfb

The street testing of mods is a real joke! Do it right using a dyno with "before"
and "after: tests, i.e. ONLY one mod at a time and NOT all mixed. Using the
this thread's methodolgy, DOESN'T prove nor indicate anything.

Check out this website (www.systemsc.com) on the Problems page under
Performance Chips and the Technical page on Ignition Systems for some
info about chips. Also, go to www.andial.com on the FAQ page and read
Question 2. Andial is USA racing for the Porsche Factory.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Doug H

Loren, I seem to recall you saying the same thing about someone's dyno results on another board. If chips were a sinking ship, you would drown before admiting the ship had a hole in it.

I am going to dyno with 4 different chips, GIAC, NBCD, Ruf, and stock. I was just supposed to wait until after I put 1,000 miles and had a valve readjust before doing so. I am at 680 now.

My goal was a sub 5 0 - 60 or else I was going to the Lenz system. I have a feeling I am very close to the hp of the Lenz system now. I will know soon enough.

Ruairidh

Loren, thanks for the link to the Andial article, that is one of the better summaries and reconciles with what I've been told by folks whose views I trust. It also supports Kevin (WarmFuzzies) contention that we're talking combination of mods here to really get at the performance improvements over the standard set-up.

There was a recent thread by Joe (Joey Bagadonuts) which, I'd highly recommend for assessing the impact of a combination of changes (including chip) on a more standard 964 motor than Doug's. While some of the participants in this thread contributed to that, for others here is the link.

Ruairidh

Doug, did you ever get to the bottom of what happened with your recent engine "implosion"? IIRC one of the potential causes was the chip, or have I missed something?

Lorenfb

I look forward to seeing your dyno results. They should be very
insightful for us all.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

dove

Kevin,

I cant understand the logic in thinking that the chip will pull all the modified parts together,Dougs modified parts with the standard chip produced a standard 0-60 time for a 964 cab.Doug does not acually know what if any significant mods have been done by the previous owner, with a standard 0-60 time with standard chip we can only sumise that the mods are not indeed that significant at all,but what we can see before are eyes is there was a huge difference when Doug fitted the RUF chip.
Paul
C2 cab

Doug H

I have my ideas, buit I don't want to say because I am not positive.

Andial is in the business of selling a very expensive engine upgrade. Naturally, they would have incentive to say that cheaper routes to increased hp are to some extent futile.

I had a stock 3.2 Carrera and I noticed an improvement in performance when adding a chip. Not a whole lot, but at least .2 range. Can you feel that difference by seat of the pants. I don't know, but some say they can.

tonytaylor

IMHO there is no way on earth a rechip alone can get a 964Cab down to 4.7s for 0-60. I would bet good money it can`t be done and I doubt very much if you could find someone to guarrentee their chip would produce such performance without other modifications on a money back basis. I believe Dougs car is not a lightweight and it would take serious power to get these times. 320 bhp is possible with the type of mods he has although if you wanted to be churlish you could argue the merits of data-loggers as measuing tools and the feasibility of acheiving 320+bhp. Doug has given this information in good faith and everyone can believe what they want.
The stock chip won`t take into account the modifications so there is no reason to believe the other mods would be effective without a rechip. It is possible that without the correct maps performance could be worse.
If your 964Cab is stock and does 0-60 in 5.5 then your a lucky man but that time isn`t consistant with the RWHP/weight ratio of a stock 964Cab. There was a thread awhile ago of UK listers measuring 0-60 with a G-tech and it is interesting to compare those times with 5.5s for a Cab.
I`d say Dougs times are consistant with his mods and the cost would be at $10k mark.

Doug H

I am not by any means an expert on this issue, but it seemed like I was loosing power with the stock chip in the upper RPM range (last 1,000 RPMs). I though this could be attributable to back pressure issues now that I have a cat-by pass and no secondary muffler. Whether right or wrong, I had thought that the more aggressive mapping on the Ruf chip may have help out in the upper RPM range to compensate for back pressure issues. Something is working as the car definitely has tremendous pull now all the way up top the red line.

Doug H

I agree 100 % and I have spent about another 7k on top of the 92 mods to get extra power. I think the engine is tweaked about as far as it will go without forced induction, a completely new fuel management system such as Lenz with sport cams, or an increase in the displacement to 3.8.

warmfuzzies

Paul,

Think of it in a different light, singing for example.

There are many fine individual singers, all excel in their craft.

Put them together in a choir, making sure the individuals have the neccessary requirements to sing their part, and the result will be a full bodied harmonious song, with a much better range and depth than the individual parts on their own.

Kevin.

Adrian

Dear Doug,
I am seriously impressed and I have save the images of your runs and I am going to take them to show to Alois Ruf when I visit him either this week or early next week. I know he will also be very happy for you.
It doesn't matter how you go there (cause I wasn't paying) but you have achieved something positive and reckon it is really kool.
This is a victory for DIY Power!!!!!
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Doug H

The 4.7 referenced earlier was a different car.

Doug H

Yeah, it would have probably been cheaper in the long run to go straight to the Lenz system or even the 3.8 upgrade. I am kind of working with what I got and I did not want forced induction.

Adrian

Dear Doug,
What I like about your work is that you are working with what you have. That is what most of us have to do. Your work has actually provided a great checklist of what can be done and some of the steps required to make it happen. It also provides a great example of the real costs involved. This is what Rennlist is all about.
May I suggest that you write this up in a flowing format and then we can get it posted to the tech section and maybe on a couple of other sites as a reference point. We can tell people, here is a real world story from 2003/4 of what you have to do. Or you can give me all the bits and I will knock something up for you to sign.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4