Which to buy 964 or 993 ?
12-20-2003, 08:43 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
A lot of us HAVE driven the 996, myself included. Looks (exterior and interior), build quality, sound, feel (993 is much more "raw" than 993, IMO) are all reasons why so many of us prefer the 993 to the 996. Also, while the 996 does have a performance advantage, the difference is quite small.
The 996 is a very different car than the 993. IMO, the 964's driving experience is much more like a 993's than the 993's is to the 996's.
The 996 is a very different car than the 993. IMO, the 964's driving experience is much more like a 993's than the 993's is to the 996's.
12-20-2003, 09:37 PM
#32
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actually, the performance as well as handling difference b/n a stock 993 and a stock post 2001 996 is quite significant (as long as the M96 engine and tranny hold up). 996 stock gearing ratio is better than 993.
however, 993 is a 993... i love mine.
however, 993 is a 993... i love mine.
12-21-2003, 04:18 PM
#33
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I must say that if your only looking at spending around $25K then you should probably be looking at the 964's. A 993 in the mid-20's will probably not be a good example of a 993. You can find an excellent 964 for that price however. Best wishes and good luck. - Jay Gratton
12-21-2003, 06:09 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
John,
Obviously, what one person considers "significant" may be quite different from another's view. Anyway, the acceleration figures for the 993 are very close to those of the 3.4 liter 996. The 996 3.6 gained power, but also weight, though it is undeniably quicker. Even then, the difference doesn't become what I would consider significant until speeds reach about 100 mph -- the 0-60 figures are nearly identical (comparing the best results of the various magazines). To me, that advantage is completely erased by the less-than-race-worthy M96 driveline. I see you found a nice way to avoid that issue...
Obviously, what one person considers "significant" may be quite different from another's view. Anyway, the acceleration figures for the 993 are very close to those of the 3.4 liter 996. The 996 3.6 gained power, but also weight, though it is undeniably quicker. Even then, the difference doesn't become what I would consider significant until speeds reach about 100 mph -- the 0-60 figures are nearly identical (comparing the best results of the various magazines). To me, that advantage is completely erased by the less-than-race-worthy M96 driveline. I see you found a nice way to avoid that issue...
12-21-2003, 07:37 PM
#35
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Geez, another my 993 is better than your 996 debate on the 964 forum. Speed Racer, I simply stated that the 996 feels faster and gets a raw deal from those who would own nothing but an air cooled, because thats the way there are supposed to be. I even said I was probably in the minority for liking the looks and interior better to avoid such a debate. I have my raw and loud Ruf 964 for fun, but to me the 996 is a better daily driver with great performance thrown in (have seen 4.77 G-Tech with my stock NA 04). The 1995 993 I drove felt about the same as far as straight line accelleration as the stock 964s I drove. Variety is the spice of life.
12-22-2003, 02:57 AM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Originally posted by Doug H,
Geez, Doug H, I simply replied to your post on this thread. I replied because I have driven the 996 and given it a chance. With the exception of build quality, nothing in my post said anything about "better" or "worse" -- just "different."
BTW, the RUF is sweet.
For a daily driver though, 993 did not even tempt me over a 996. The 996 is an awesome car and gets a raw deal from proclaimed "purist" who won't drive it, haven't driven it, or won't give it a chance for a host of what ever reasons.
BTW, the RUF is sweet.
12-22-2003, 06:34 PM
#38
Edmond,
The 964RS is an interesting car but a rare and expensive find in the US. A European magazine reviewed many of the "RS" cars over the years and (surprisingly) described the 964 as the pig of the litter. If you really want a rare bird, look for a 993RS (and if you find one and don't take it, let me know...)
I pursued a variety of RS cars for a while and gave up. I spread the search to the Andial cars, a "real" Carrera Cup car and couldn't find a worthwhile car at a price I'd pay. If you can afford a track-only car, the options become much more appealing. If you pursue any lightweight 964, you'll be paying enough to consider any 993. I have a 993 Turbo now and used to drive a '94 RS America. I can only advise that you drive several 964's in excellent condition and compare your impressions with equivalent condition 993's. When I decided on the RSA in the beginning, I preferred it's more "raw" 911 feel (early 911 owners are entitled to laugh right about now...) and, while I wanted a '72 or '73, I finally decided I'd be biting off more than I could chew because I needed a reliable daily driver and wanted creature comforts like a/c. Today, I wish I'd never sold the RSA. I'll likely buy an early 911, but I won't get another 964. I'll eventually give up my 520hp AWD in favour of an "ordinary" '98 C2S and just go about making it lighter and more powerful with the "usual" lightweight flywheel and Super Cup transaxle to perk up the throttle response.
One positive note: if you buy sensibly in a 964 or 993, you'll get out of the car with little damage to the cash account and you'll be all the better experienced to choose the next car.
Cheers,
The 964RS is an interesting car but a rare and expensive find in the US. A European magazine reviewed many of the "RS" cars over the years and (surprisingly) described the 964 as the pig of the litter. If you really want a rare bird, look for a 993RS (and if you find one and don't take it, let me know...)
I pursued a variety of RS cars for a while and gave up. I spread the search to the Andial cars, a "real" Carrera Cup car and couldn't find a worthwhile car at a price I'd pay. If you can afford a track-only car, the options become much more appealing. If you pursue any lightweight 964, you'll be paying enough to consider any 993. I have a 993 Turbo now and used to drive a '94 RS America. I can only advise that you drive several 964's in excellent condition and compare your impressions with equivalent condition 993's. When I decided on the RSA in the beginning, I preferred it's more "raw" 911 feel (early 911 owners are entitled to laugh right about now...) and, while I wanted a '72 or '73, I finally decided I'd be biting off more than I could chew because I needed a reliable daily driver and wanted creature comforts like a/c. Today, I wish I'd never sold the RSA. I'll likely buy an early 911, but I won't get another 964. I'll eventually give up my 520hp AWD in favour of an "ordinary" '98 C2S and just go about making it lighter and more powerful with the "usual" lightweight flywheel and Super Cup transaxle to perk up the throttle response.
One positive note: if you buy sensibly in a 964 or 993, you'll get out of the car with little damage to the cash account and you'll be all the better experienced to choose the next car.
Cheers,
12-22-2003, 07:05 PM
#41
I was talking about the 993 Super Cup axle; it's shorter set of gear ratios.
The factory 993 6spd is geared to 170mph+, which, well, I don't drive that fast very often ... If you can give up the joy of knowing you could wind her out in 6th, then you can set the gear ratios closely spaced. 1st remains as a "launch" gear, but the other ratios come closer together, giving the car more punch up to say 140mph.
It's not a cheap operation, but if you need a clutch and you're doing the LWF, now's the time. Depending upon the car (assuming a naturally aspirated 993) the effect is quite dramatic and I image a similar exercise with the 964 would yield useful improvements even if only for street driving.
Also a short-shift kit will help when sawing through the gears.
The factory 993 6spd is geared to 170mph+, which, well, I don't drive that fast very often ... If you can give up the joy of knowing you could wind her out in 6th, then you can set the gear ratios closely spaced. 1st remains as a "launch" gear, but the other ratios come closer together, giving the car more punch up to say 140mph.
It's not a cheap operation, but if you need a clutch and you're doing the LWF, now's the time. Depending upon the car (assuming a naturally aspirated 993) the effect is quite dramatic and I image a similar exercise with the 964 would yield useful improvements even if only for street driving.
Also a short-shift kit will help when sawing through the gears.
12-22-2003, 09:27 PM
#42
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There is a 964 RSR in DuPoint registry this month. Said it has 400 + hp with the 3.8 litre and Lenz system. Does 400 + sound right? They want $ 68,000 for it and it has 71,000 miles. Looks like my car with a normal Carrera tail. Same wheels, ducts, 993 mirrors and etc.
