Singer's really ramping up production
11-07-2017, 12:57 PM
#16
Dont forget to deduct Rudy’s stash from this list 😂😎
Considering they are mostly using C2/C4 coupes ( I doubt they are using RSA's unless heavily tracked and for many $$ is no object so ??) which these numbers show to add up to a total 31,572 NB coupes made over the production of the 964. We have recently seen published info from Porsche that would subtract another 360 coupes from the US market and what appears to be another 360 from the ROW numbers. So deduct 720 from that number. Leaving 30,852 coupes made world wide. BTW some of those numbers are clearly incorrect some are high some are low.
The US spec cars are in jeopardy since far less were made for the US market. I am fairly confident based on Porsche's admitting to the first 60 vin numbers as not being used that only 5,107 964 coupes minus RSA's were imported.
We know that countless numbers of these (possibly half or more) have been totaled, parted out or are in **** poor condition with accident damage that leaves less than IMO 2000 of these tubs left in the US. For the US market at the rate Singer is gobbling these up that leads to 964 US spec genocide as far as I am concerned. I find it funny but soon my C2 might be worth as much as my 3.6T to the right person who wants what the factory made and not some sorry to say overpriced kit car. If that picture isn't proof it is a kit car I don't know what is. The irony will be that the day may come when more singers show up to a C&C and my C2 will be the rarity. If these cars are about exclusivity I see a problem with so many being made and irrespective of options they are all similar enough to me.
I like their engineering cant stand the looks but If I had $200k to dump into a C2 I would be far happier than I would be with a Singer and have as much as $400k more like $500K left for other things.
The US spec cars are in jeopardy since far less were made for the US market. I am fairly confident based on Porsche's admitting to the first 60 vin numbers as not being used that only 5,107 964 coupes minus RSA's were imported.
We know that countless numbers of these (possibly half or more) have been totaled, parted out or are in **** poor condition with accident damage that leaves less than IMO 2000 of these tubs left in the US. For the US market at the rate Singer is gobbling these up that leads to 964 US spec genocide as far as I am concerned. I find it funny but soon my C2 might be worth as much as my 3.6T to the right person who wants what the factory made and not some sorry to say overpriced kit car. If that picture isn't proof it is a kit car I don't know what is. The irony will be that the day may come when more singers show up to a C&C and my C2 will be the rarity. If these cars are about exclusivity I see a problem with so many being made and irrespective of options they are all similar enough to me.
I like their engineering cant stand the looks but If I had $200k to dump into a C2 I would be far happier than I would be with a Singer and have as much as $400k more like $500K left for other things.
11-08-2017, 01:16 AM
#18
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Right, but ROW cars are easily importable at 25 years plus (92 now, 93 next year, and then all of them in 2019) and there is nothing special or better about a US 964 compared to a ROW 964. Maybe for California it matter re: emissions (not sure) but otherwise ....
30k is a lot of cars to go around. Maybe we start seeing a lot of imports from Europe of used cars. It should help make up for Europe buying all the 356 and Long nose from the us.
30k is a lot of cars to go around. Maybe we start seeing a lot of imports from Europe of used cars. It should help make up for Europe buying all the 356 and Long nose from the us.
11-08-2017, 01:20 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
This bothers me. At a recent fancy C&C on LI an orange Singer got all the attention.
11-08-2017, 04:00 AM
#20
I don't know where I've read that prices got pretty high in CA and engines or chassis are absolutely impossible to find and if possible for very high prices. The person was saying it is Singers fault, because ramping up production and basing their Singers on 964 chassis and 964 engine blocks.
I feel for the local 964 community. It's that awkward feeling you get when you realize you have a car that will grow in value even more but on the other hand you just know everything around it will become even pricier too. But you don't want to be bothered with thoughts about the value of it when you beat the crap out of it at the track, all you want is to drive that damn car all year long.
It is quite similar here in Switzerland, where you know people are valuing cars that originally were delivered in CH a lot. Also, importing a car is not easy and it involves a lot of time and money. So the market is kind of closed.
On one hand it is nice for owners that see their cars value even more, but on the other hand it's very restricting, especially when comparing to the neighbour countries in EU.
I feel for the local 964 community. It's that awkward feeling you get when you realize you have a car that will grow in value even more but on the other hand you just know everything around it will become even pricier too. But you don't want to be bothered with thoughts about the value of it when you beat the crap out of it at the track, all you want is to drive that damn car all year long.
It is quite similar here in Switzerland, where you know people are valuing cars that originally were delivered in CH a lot. Also, importing a car is not easy and it involves a lot of time and money. So the market is kind of closed.
On one hand it is nice for owners that see their cars value even more, but on the other hand it's very restricting, especially when comparing to the neighbour countries in EU.
11-08-2017, 09:11 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
It would be interesting to have info on how many of the 25,000 or so ROW coupes are still around. Not to mention that they are spread out over the entire planet. Can we assume that the European coupes were treated the same as in the US? Also would be nice to know how many of these were RHD. Clearly the RS and RSA will be cars that will escalate in value.
11-08-2017, 11:29 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
was look on salvage auction sites this morn... not ONE 964 coupe up there......
11-08-2017, 12:10 PM
#24
Are the 964 still considered the ugly duckling? Or why are people paying top dollars to have them rebuilt to look like G-models?
Singer are now developing their own air cooled engine and after that pretty much any air cooled 911 will be at potential risk for beeing the next Singer project!
The longhood look have been out of fashion before! In 20 years we may see longhoods being converted to look like 964s like it used to be 1990!
Re the 993 there is a company in Germany called Kaege building longhoods out of 993s!
Singer are now developing their own air cooled engine and after that pretty much any air cooled 911 will be at potential risk for beeing the next Singer project!
The longhood look have been out of fashion before! In 20 years we may see longhoods being converted to look like 964s like it used to be 1990!
Re the 993 there is a company in Germany called Kaege building longhoods out of 993s!
Last edited by Railmaster.; 11-08-2017 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Typo
11-08-2017, 12:41 PM
#25
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
A year or two ago the order book at Singer was ~45 deep... How many 1/2 million dollars 964 based cars total will they modify? 200? 300? I see this as a win-win. Values go up for existing owners and the price for used parts on eBay continues to drop (yes, they've been selling the tear offs over at eBay.)
11-08-2017, 01:27 PM
#26
A year or two ago the order book at Singer was ~45 deep... How many 1/2 million dollars 964 based cars total will they modify? 200? 300? I see this as a win-win. Values go up for existing owners and the price for used parts on eBay continues to drop (yes, they've been selling the tear offs over at eBay.)
11-08-2017, 07:15 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
A year or two ago the order book at Singer was ~45 deep... How many 1/2 million dollars 964 based cars total will they modify? 200? 300? I see this as a win-win. Values go up for existing owners and the price for used parts on eBay continues to drop (yes, they've been selling the tear offs over at eBay.)
I had a large group of friends with 964's not long ago. C&C's and concours events filled with them and now I am lucky to see another except the occasional turbo or factory WB. It is impossible to find nice cars anymore and impossible to find project cars without salvage titles.I have a lot of friends that want them but they have tired from searching and finding the dregs left over or the overpriced garage queen.
11-08-2017, 07:53 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JohnK964
I was going to ask whatÂ’s happening to the primal parts they take off THANKS Jason😎
11-08-2017, 10:19 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
I look at the singers and really appreciate the development of the car and attention to detail.
But I'm with railmaster, I think the evolution of the singer will begin to follow the evolution of the factory cars, don't think it will be too long before you see an rsr and then 964 styled singer.
It's the best, most integrated design of the 911....
But I'm with railmaster, I think the evolution of the singer will begin to follow the evolution of the factory cars, don't think it will be too long before you see an rsr and then 964 styled singer.
It's the best, most integrated design of the 911....
