Adrian

Dear Cupcar,
You nailed it in one, People forget that the primary RSA customer of the day was the PCNA. The distributor sets up the options exactly as you laid them out. The customer of PCNA is then given the option to keep or delete. This applied to all the major distributors. AMAG here in Switzerland had 5 specific options for ALL Swiss 964s. Rear window wiper was one. When the customer dealt with AMAG he was given the choice or not to remove or add options depending on if it was a dealer car (showroom) or customer car.
It would actually be nice if people looked at this from the correct perspective. RSAs were a PCNA specified cars. Again repeating that it was the PCNA who was the primary RSA customer not the purchaser.

Dear Don,
Some people are never going to be convinced and you are one of them. I am sorry you see these discussions as minimalising. I call it verification versus assumption.

Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

9caregiver

Greetings Adrian,

I see these discussions very informative and I am always wanting to learn more. Please do not take me wrong. I stated you tend to minimalise the RSA which as you may know has a big following here. Thats all.

Best,

Don

Christer

I wouldn't call it minimalising. I would call it being realistic.

The RSA was low cost model compared to the standard Carrera 2, but these days is worth more based on perception and the fact that there are relatively few of them around. No one is taking anything away from the RSA, but an RS it ain't.

p.s. I posted a theory about 2 years ago on why the RSA model is worth more than the C2. To sum up, I think the reason is patriotism. The word 'America' in the model name is enough to achieve this. Nothing wrong with patriotism though, although in this case it will cost you quite a bit of money.

Adrian

Dear Don,
Yes I know the RSA has a big following. There is nothing wrong with that because it is 964 and this is great. However I am sure you would be the first to agree that the following should be based on the true merits of the RSA itself and not based on what people assume, or wish or want it to be when it is not.
In my book I write about the RSA. It was never meant to be a RS. It is not even based on the RS, it is a stand alone model, the RS America.
The RSA is a limited edition special model in its OWN RIGHT and this alone makes it special. Anything else spoils the party in my opinion. To be quite honest if you look at some of the theories and if they were true it would make the RSA a cheap and not very good imitation of the RS. I cannot tell anyone how to look at things. I look at the RSA as the RSA. A special model just for the USA. In the same way the 911SC Weissach was.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Cupcar#12

Been away for a while - and wow though this issue was closed a year ago
My 2 cents - the RSA bodyshell is the normal N/A shell (which could be ordered w/o sunroof but almost none were). there should not be any rolled fender lips as the cars never underwent any motorsports prep on the line.
i do not know how to account for the anomely at this point. Aftermarket or mistake is my guess.
I can take photo's of my car since it is stripped in the front at the moment and the suspension is out. The tow hook would not make a pretty picture though since it is pointed straight down at the moment.
- the good news is that we are working on getting it fixed and finally have a reasonable repair estimate by people who will do it right, and not screw it up.

Adrian

Dear Rob,
I do not agree the rolled fenders were a mistake. There was a lot of concern at Porsche in this period of time about wheel rub and tyre damage and liability costs.
The RSA was actually the first to roll out for the USA with 17 inch wheels in its standard option package. All others came standard with 16 inch at the time.
I believe they rolled the fenders simply because of this potential problem and this avoided it. In the end they discovered they had nothing to worry about and stopped doing it.
I know that M030 optioned C2s in the early days of model year 1992 also had rolled fenders. Actually they are peened and this is done before painting. It is easy to do, they just roll the body over and of they go.
To me it is no mystery and there are plenty of clues in Porsche documentation at the time.
Remember the technical service bulletin to change the steering stops and do some minor front end body modifications. Only approving 8JX17 wheels for the rear which has now been rescinded and 9JX17 are now approved.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: Didn't Porsche also flatten off the oil line in the RH wheel arch of the RSA? This also points to wheel rub concerns.

9caregiver

Greetings,

From what I can see, the oil line in the RSA is as on the standard car. The line is also at least an inch away from the tire. The Carrera RS and Cup cars used a different oil line. When fitting larger wheels to an RSA the oil line rubs the tire. Been there. For what it is worth on a stock unlowered RSA the top of the rear tire to the fender lip is nearly 3 inches away and the wheel is 1 inch inboard. I do not see how clearance would be an issue unless there was an elephant in the back of the car!

Best,

Don

JasonAndreas

WPOAB2964PS419131

I originally ordered the car with the only option being LSD (no AC, no sunroof, no stereo) and red seat belts. I have rolled fenders but no seam welding on the rear shock mounts.

The car did come with a flattened passenger side rear oil line, just not sure how much it differs from a normal C2 oil line.

RSAErick

I agree that there "appears" to be some bad blood between C2/C4 owners and RSA owners. Personally, I think that it is our "passion" for our particular cars that creates it.

It seems to me that C2/C4 owners feel slighted that RSA's have a higher market value - especially considering that the RSA had a lower initial cost, and because the value differences are not justified by the actual component differences. As a result, I hear the C2/C4 owners minimalizing the differences and maximalizing the similarities between the cars.

It also seems to me that the RSA owners feel that their cars are more "special" than the C2/C4 because of the limited numbers, higher market value, and - albeit not extensive - performance additions/subtractions. So you hear the RSA owners trying to maximalize the differences (or find new, undiscovered differences), in order to justify the higher market value.

In addtion, each group appears very defensive to what they perceive the other is saying - and then defends the position that their car is equally as viable.

In my opinion, RSA owners need to understand that unless their particular car is seam-welded, then there is no further need to discuss the value of seam-welding on the viability of RSA's. They also need to understand that the higher market value of their cars is not reflective of the "superiority" of their cars.

On the other hand, C2/C4 owners need to understand that RSA owners are well aware that their cars are not Euro RS's - if the Euro RS was available in the US, I'm sure that most of the RSA owners would prefer them for the same reasons that they prefer the RSA. I also believe that C2/C4 owners need to accept that there are reasons why RSA owners are proud of their cars. There are plenty of differences to appreciate - how many C2/C4 owners bring their cars closer to RS/RSA specs with door parts, tails, seats, interior, etc.? Likewise, how many RSA owners do you see adding door handles, leather seats, carpeting, power steering, or a retractable tail?

Maybe I'm way off base, but I don't think that the word "America" has anything to do with the difference in market value. If anything, I think that RSA owners are more attracted to the "RS" title than the word "America".

As always... just my 2 cents.

Peace,

Erick

rsa

Well said Erick,

Personally, I bought the car because it is rarer and because it has (to me anyway) a more aggressive feel to it. I am not sure I could live with it as a daily driver. Lack of acoutrements (read: good stereo) and manual steering truely make the car feel more raw. There are enough mods compared to a standard C2 to accomplish this. Mabey it's only psychological but It's enough for me. I also had to have a model with a fixed whale tail. It's a look I've always loved, and had to have.

That being said, of course I would rather have a "real" European RS or even a USA Cup. In no way am I or (I think) are any other RSA owners kidding themselves that they have some kind of race prepped car. I think the factory (or PCNA) would have emphasized that when the car was new if it really was

The "America" in the name was not at all essential to me although my plates read "RS USA"!!!!

Adrian

Dear Erick,
I do not believe there is any bad blood between RSA owners and the rest of the 964 community. I certainly do not think this way. I do agree that I have found the odd RSA owner, this goes back a long way, who maybe gets a tad over enthusiastic over the RSA.
There are going to be some RSA owners who are upset at people like me who question all these myths and legends because I know them not to be true. Cannot help that.
I give the RSA a good showing in my book.
The value of the RSA should be higher now because of their rarity, generally lower mileage and generally great condition. Yes I get annoyed when people not RSAs try and create something extra maybe to enhance their ownership or the sale price. However that is life and you see this throughout the Porsche community.
The RSA is a great 964. It is a rare 964 more through circumstance than anything else but still very rare.
Great car, great owners. No bad blood.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Cupcar#12

Adrian, point conceded - now the question is how many? and Why?

Adrian

Dear Rob,
I am afraid from here on in it is going to be speculation. Almost all the people involved with the 964 have retired. To find the person responsible for making decisions will be long gone. The people onthe line would never know why they did things they just followed the instructions.
There will always be mysteries but the wheel clearance issue is still on top of my agenda.
How many, that would require a survey by the RSA register I would suggest.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

RSAErick

Yes, of course. You are right. That is probably not the right term.

Adrian

I would agree with healthy rivalry. In the end we are all part of the great 964 community worldwide. Plus you should see the C4 parts on your RSA.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4