Arjan B.

Sorry Adrain, don't see this always a a "ADRAIN STREATHER UNDER ATTACK"

If I knew everything, why would I bought your book then.......................

Nice weekend!

Adrian

Dear Arjan,
I am afraid I do not have the time to devote to just one person who asks questions like you have at the moment. If you cannot accept that then I am sorry but bad luck. The way you write your replies to me lately also put me off. You seem to like to have arguments.
I genuinely do not have the time or the interest at the moment to justify myself to you on these type of questions. There are people to help, books to write and I am wasting time doing this reply. After all the posts that there have been on this subject surely you can start looking at some of this yourself. All you have to do is pop the control unit out and look at the part number and you will have your answer. It has been changed or repaired and modified.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Arjan B.

Mr. Streather,

You are right, I checked all the invoices from Italy, on one fromk 1997 there is a part number that should be a climate control unit.......

The part number is 993 659 047 and costs a lot of money.

Thanks for your response, and I feel sorry that you understand things the wrong way. I ask questions as everybody else, so I don't see a point there.
I checked the service manual which shows a 1 button climate control.

I think the best way is NOT responding on my questions anymore Adrian, I will find my way out in a other way. Sorry.
I will not have any discussion anymore with you.
I feel bad about this, but I think it's the only way to go togheter thru 1 door.

I mean things the right way, I can't help it you think I take you under fire.

People who know not so much about Porsche's are easy satisfied, I am not [this means not that I know all about it!!]. I am not satisfied with every first answer, I look further till I am sure about things.

ADRIAN, NO HARD FEELINGS FROM MY SIDE, BUT THIS IS THE ONLY WAY.

I wish you a nice weekend and good luck with your sales of the book.

Adrian

Dear Arjan,
Sorry you feel that way but I was not responding to a question you jumped into a thread announcing that you disagree with me. There is a big difference.
If I am able to answer a question that you pose I will continue to do so. This is a free and friendly service and the fact that you are never satisfied is something you will have to deal with yourself.
A simple check of your own paperwork first, before jumping in would have had you agreeing with me instead of disagreeing. This is exactly what I meant by helping yourself first. I do not have your paperwork. I sometimes think and maybe that I am wrong, that you maybe trying to trap me. Silly thoughts go through me head when these things happen.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Kahdmus

Anyone kindly have a part number for the CCU?

Also, was the unit in our 964's used in any other models (for while I'm looking at used/reconditioned parts)?

Thanks,

--Howard

Adrian

Dear Howard,
You will have one of these parts numbers with the corresponding 993 replacement.

1989-90 964 659 045 00 without aircon 993 659 045 00
1989-90 964 659 047 00 with aircon 993 659 047 00

You will need to carry out a modification to the wiring on the 89C4 to make it work.
The last two digits 00 are critically important. You must make sure you get a -00.

The other question you have, the answer is NO. The 964 system was developed from the 944 system but they ended up with a unique system. No cheap way out I am afraid if the CCU is fried.
However the fact is they rarely are.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: Please be aware also that there are four different control unit part numbers for 89/90. Each has a different 993 equivalent.
LHD with aircon
LHD without aircon
RHD with aircon
RHD without aircon

Kahdmus

This is great info Adrian! Knowing there are 4 different part #'s could well save me from making a BIG error in purchase!

After looking at the unit last night I am somewhat inclined to think that it is not the original CCU. I'll remove it and check the part number to be sure. It had also been disconnected - I got it hooked back up and now realize why - it makes an absolutely terrible whining noise!!!

Thanks again,

--H

Randall G.

>Anyone kindly have a part number for the CCU?

Are you kidding? We're too busy arguing amongst ourselves!

Seriously...I was going to post the proper part #s for you, but Adrian has already done it.

Adrian...while Arjan was wrong about the double-button CCU in an early model 964 (and readily admits so), he has made some valid points. You often (usually?) act as if you're being personally attacked when someone fills in an omission in a post you've made, makes a correction, questions what you've written, or just expands on what you've written. Rather than participating in a rational discussion on what's technically correct, you typically try to discredit what the other guy has posted. Or, say that you don't have time for this stuff, and will be cutting back on your time on Rennlist, etc., etc. (we're all busy, btw).

>PET is a good guide but in many areas inaccurate to say the least. It says thing may be fitted but it does not say if they work. This is why there is a factory manual to be consulted and technical service bulletins to be consulted. Plus many other docs.

Come on Adrian, are you suggesting that there's a unique to the 94/95 993 CCU, but that it doesn't exist in the Porsche parts manual? It's okay to say you're wrong, or mis-spoke. Really, we all know you're the most knowledgeable person on this board, we won't think any less of you.

No hard feelings, Adrian. I'm still buying a copy of your sure-to-be-fabulous 964 book. Looking forward to it very, very much!

Adrian

Dear Randall,
Randall if you wish to take over please feel free to do so. Maybe you could advise me where in PET all the modification required notes are.
If you actually knew what happens when a 993 CCU is installed into a 89C4, especially a RHD one which is worse you would not be posting what you do. However you own a 91 Targa so how would you know? You have a 993 motor installed so you should know about the 993 manual situation and how different a 96 is from a 95. In fact you should altready know this because you must have the 94/95 only manual. There is a different one for a 96/98.
I can assure you if you do as much research and testing as I have and when you read my book you will see some of the evidence you will retract your statement that I mispoke.
Please go back to theoriginal poster who is probalby totally confused by now and look at what 964 he owns and where he is posting from. When you all read my book you will see exactly what I am talking about.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: The only reason I am spending time answering your post above is because I am at a loss on how to make the 911SC structure seem interesting.

Randall G.

Hmmm. Just the sort of reply I expected.

The jumper added when installing an updated CCU in an earlier car goes from G1 to G19. G1 is for auxiliary blower diagnosis (turbo: left-hand side), G19 is also for auxiliary blower diagnosis (turbo: right-hand side). Thus, my understanding of the jumper is that it corrects for the non-turbo car not having two auxiliary blowers. The jumper is only required for pre-91 cars (i.e., before the 964 turbo was introduced). I don't see how a jumper between G1 and G19 can possibly affect current draw on the left and right interior fans in the trunk.

G1 and G19 are shorted together on the '91 C2/C4 wiring harness. Thus, no need for a jumper. On the the pre-91 cars, the jumper is installed to short G1 to G19 in the wiring harness.

Adrian

Dear Randall,
Please go argue with Porsche on this one. They wrote up the modification and the engineering. You are making assumptions.
You also know that the rear blower, if failed affects the front blowers that is how we tell we have a rear blower problem. Without the jumper the control unit thinks one blower motor is missing and this is why the left hand blower is initially affected. To use Porsches words "The control unit is confused".
I changed my post by the way it was too long.
If you want to argue with me please come at me with facts not opinions. Do what I did, go get the documents.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Randall G.

>Without the jumper the control unit thinks one blower motor is missing and this is why the left hand blower is initially affected.

Okay, agreed, sounds quite plausible. In fact, the manual states:

"If the jumper is missing, a fault (Fault Code 46 and 47) on the missing left-hand rear blower is detected and the left-hand heater blower will therefore operate at reduced speed while the heater is on."

I imagine Porsche is likely referring to the left-hand blower in the trunk when they write "left-hand heater blower." "Missing left-hand rear blower" is (obviously) referring to the rear blower.

So, I had my blowers backwards. It would be the left-front blower running slow, not the left-rear. At least that appears to be the case.

Remember our buddy Patrick in N.C.--used to own both a 993 and a 964? He runs an updated CCU in his '90 964--sans jumper. I tried to get him to install the jumper, but he says everything works fine. I suspect he has a blower that is running slow, but doesn't know it.

I have and reference the manuals for both the 964 & the 993. My HVAC, however, is completely 964.

If you can show me that there is a 94/95 unique CCU, I will be more than happy to retract my statement that you mis-spoke. In fact, I will eat my hat, and post a picture of me eating my hat on the internet.

>PS: The only reason I am spending time answering your post above is because I am at a loss on how to make the 911SC structure seem interesting.

LOL! Don't let the guys on the 911 board read this, or they'll never buy your book.

Arjan B.

Adrian,

That's wierd, I have to check all my documents belonging to the car first before I can make any questions??? What are you, some VIP? For me is everybody the same, book writer or not. I never look up to someone! I met a lot of famous people in my life so far, but did not ran 1 step faster for them. Don't let the fame rise to your head Adrain, stay on the ground. Why don't you have time to answer me?
I think you better say "Arjan, I don't like it when you ask me questions, you're always a pain in the a.. to me!" That would be hounest!!

Saying that I having a problem never beeing satisfied, and need to solve it has his reasons.
My experience is that if you are agree with the first answer you get, you will hurt your head most of the times, so I check more then 1 source then.
This means not that I am never satisfied, I just want the right info.

Adrian, If you think that I want to trap you, you're completely WRONG.
Why would I??? I have no reason to do that.
This I wy don't want to discuss with you anymore.
You are "The Rennlist Help" for everybody, also for me, but when people starts to ask too many questions, you get nervouse.



I read the thread about the climate controle, never tought about this issue, read that the very last 964's had a climate control unit with 2 buttons, and think: hey, I have a 1992 car with 2 buttons fitted. Then I tell this to you and you say that I have to check all my papers and then I can answer my question by my self, and you think I want to trap you........??

I wish you a nice weekend, and yes please continue helping "the others" and ignore me. I thing that's the best way, sorry. No hard feelings overhere.
Thanks for all the valueble information in the past, and I will enjoy your book when I get it overhere.

Adrian

Dear Randall,
From you last post I can see the confusion and I agree that Porsche are never helpful in their descriptions of things. When I was compiling the book I found a number of different descriptions for the same thing and some were very bad translations.
When Porsche refer to the left heater blower in this case they are actually referring to the "front" left blower fan.
I posted some time ago that the blower amplifier is fitted with a built in temp sensor. If I remember at the time you had some trouble with this as well. It does not show up in any wiring diagrams or anything because it is internal to the amp itself. There is only once reference to this temp sensor in all the Porsche doucmentation provided to me and that was written in 1988.
This issue like all others is not black and white it has various shades of gray. I have worked with manufacturing companies all my life and they are all the same. I wish that they would be more precise and clear but they are not. There is no co-ordinating within any of these companies, Porsche included of data. This is why issues like this come up and some people have a problem with believing them because you believe that Porsche has it all in hand, Well they do not unfortunately.

Now to your question of the 94/95 control units for a 993. It is like anything else you can see it any way you want. So let me give you my view on this subject.

The dual air con button CCUs were designed for the 993 series. They carry 993 part numbers. That makes them in my view 993 parts.
Yes it is true some VERY late production 964s also got these control units. Why? Porsche ran out of the 964 versions on the production line.
The -00 series of 993 control units are for the 94/95 model series only. They happen to work in a 964. I can tell you that the 964 control unit from MY91 does not work in a 993.
The -00 control unit does not work in a 96 series 993 either.
Not = Sometimes it looks like it does work. It takes 5 to 10 minutes to start to cause problems. When you install anything into any car you must test it properly, all functions and give it time to work or not work. (Anyone familair with aircraft electronics will know this well).
The -01 series of 993 control units do not work in a 964 except one, the Japanese versions of the 964. Why? I have absolutely no idea because I do not have access to a Japanese 964. I do know from Porsche-Japan that they did mods on delivery to Japan. They even remove the options stickers.
Back to the 993. They are wired up differently. So it is my view that the 993 had it owns CCU for model years 94 and 95 (only 95 for the USA). This control unit did not work in the early 964s without modification and they happen to work from 91 to 94 models. However they were designed and built for the 993.

If people cannot have their previously thought ideas and views changed by the facts then I prefer they not purchase my books because they only contain facts with references. Bentley do not permit the use of opinion in their published works. They only permit verified facts. More than once Bentley editors challenged technical content and I was required to submit factual evidence to back up the data. If I could not it was removed from the book by mutual agreement. Those that do purchase my books please read the references. You will find them long and interesting reading.
Yes Randall there is going to be some very interesting discussions with the 911SC along these lines. Much of what has been written previously on the 911SC, especially in the USA is not entirely accurate. I am surprised that nobody approached Porsche for data. I did and was quite surprised. I also have the genuine 911 maintenance manual which was a revelation in technical data.
I pose a question for you to think about. Does setting ride height determine the measured roof height?

Dear Arjan,
Now you are being insulting, arrogant and downright nasty. I think you need to take a deep breath, count to ten and remove foot from mouth. I am not looking for anything from you. I could not care less if you look up or down to anyone myself included. I do not look for these things. In fact I get embarrassed with people giving me praise. I prefer to move onto the next project. I do not know you and you do not know me. If you want to get personal like this then I shall take your advice from the previous post.

The original point I was trying to make was. "YOU had the data in your hand to answer your own question. You asked me a question which you already had the answer to but did not know it. I suggested that you might have that data and you got all nasty. My point was, please exhaust all avenues for yourself first before you ask such questions of me. Learn to help yourself is what I am saying. You had a dual button control unit right? You say to yourself Adrian says I should not have this, right? Okay let me check my paperwork, receipts to see if it was changed before I ask the question. This way I will not embarass myself right or waste other peoples time! Why is it a waste of other peoples time? Because nobody knows the history of your 964 except you. Well it seems you did not know the history either. At least you do know.

Lesson for all. Check the receipts of your auto any auto. See what has been changed. This can be very helpful when you strike a problem. This allows you to provide even more data when asking a question or seeking help.

Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Adrian

Dear Randall,
I was just having a shower (my best inspiration comes in the bathroom) and I remembered something about the last person who challenged me and said if I proved them wrong they would eat their hat.
Thios had nothing to do with Porsches. We were on the 911 email list at the time and we were talking about the strength of the US dollar at the time. I made a statement (remembering this was a good three years agonow) that I felt the strong US dollar could not be maintained and eventually it would fall. Of course I was immediately attacked and one chap came back and said when the Euro was worth more than the dollar he would eat his hat. I contacted him the day the Euro hit 1.01, I know he received the email but I never got a reply.
I have no intention in distracting myself in making any further attempt to provide a case any further to argue my point of view that the 94 and 95 993s had their own ccus. You have your view and you are entitled to it.
Do you like strawberry hats or?
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: Last line is a joke that is why there is a big smiley there.