backitoff

just done a reseal, clean/paint, and lwf on my engine and transmission. Finallly fired her up last night to find the new rms is leaking badly :-(
Really don't want to drop it all out again so was thinking of trying to just drop the transmission.
what do you guys advise? Can I remove trans without removing headers/heat exchangers?

John McM

I feel for you, as I'm just completing a reseal and going back in would drive me nuts. That said on my C4 I couldn't see any other option but to drop the engine and box out in such a situation. What do you have?

Btw which brand seal is it and how was it installed? Dry?, Curil T? Other method?

Rocket Rob

If it were me, I would drop the engine and tranny.

backitoff

It's a genuine Porsche seal. I installed it using white grease as a lube. I read up that it must not go all the way in so I measured the depth of the old one and fitted the new one evenly to the same depth. I did not have access to the special tool, so I was (allegedly) super careful when input this in.

I have been putting this back in for the past 4 days as the engine was stripped of all ancillary back to the block and cylinders. I'm really really struggling to face having to drop the engine trans again with no guarantee that the new genuine seal won't leak again.

Yiu Wai Tong

the engine and transmission have to drop together if its a c4.if its a c2 you can drop the transmission only.the new seal should not leak like crazy.did u pay attention to the lip of the seal when u installed it?or maybe the sealing surface (engine side)is not so smooth?also put some sealant on the outer race of the seal as an extra guaranteen.good luck

dutchcrunch

if you used the porsche seal that has about half of the outer seal reduced, that's your problem. that seal need to be at least flush. I would drop the engine, its a bear but safer as not to put excess load on the tranny input shaft. I would get the elring seal as it has a full seal on the outside of the seal like the original. the newer ones from porsche have half that and you know where the cut out is for the seal removal is. if its flush you are lucky to have 2 groves past that area. hope this makes sense. by the way the elring is one that is sourced from a top notch builder. (BW)

dutchcrunch

(SW)

John McM

Now, I'm confused. Have I installed mine too deeply?

C4inLA

Here is mine, did not replace. Was done by reputable Indy, don't know brand? Has dots? Depth okay?

dutchcrunch

c4inla, yours is the Porsche factory seal and looks good.


john mcm, your seal is the elring type and looks to be installed all the way in. I would not say that its wrong just set all the way back. I did some research and people say that far back and it blocks off the oil return holes for the oil, but that's not true, the holes are up higher than the seal. that seal area is designed so that the seal can be installed at different depths so that during a seal replacement it can be installed in a different area if the crank has wear marks from the removed seal. BEFORE YOU TAKE IT OUT I WOULD ASK SOMEONE ELSE. im just letting you know that your all the way in.

dutchcrunch

hey John McM , look at this and look at john walkers workshop reply, here is the link

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ing-bad-2.html

John McM

Thanks for the link. I installed my seal before I resealed my case halves so I had a good look at the general fit and logic of the seal.

Apart from choosing a depth that avoids the seal lip moving on an existing worn groove in the crankshaft I can see no obvious reason why the seal can't be installed fully recessed. The lip doesn't block the oil return hole. I've yet to fit my engine and am willing to listen to reasons why I my logic is faulty. Bring on the debate, but John Walkers reply seems to state it's ok.

As for the seal types, I bought a Porsche set, then ordered an Elring one and was sent a Victor Reinz by mistake so I have all three.

Here are all three from the side on. Clearly the Elring brand has the most grooves and it's the one I installed.

John McM

Edit to above. The sealing lips on the seals are recessed 5.5mm from the seal edge. If you look at my pic you will see that there is a gap between the case edge and the crankshaft edge. I can now see that pushing the seal fully in risks the sealing lip being too close to the inner crankshaft edge.

For the sake of my sanity I will pull the seal and install a new one at a lesser depth. I'll take some measurements while I'm doing that for every ones benefit.

dutchcrunch

using that Porsche seal with the reduced outer sealing ring is risky if its not correct. I have used it before with success ,but the elring seal is the way to go.

John McM

Pulled the seal and fitted a new one flush to the case. I fitted it dry on the outside and a thin layer of oil on the sealing lip.

I took some measurements while doing this. The case recess is 16mm deep. The space between the engine side of the crankshaft flange is approx 3mm. The seal lip is indented 5.5mm. This means that a fully inserted seal should be ok with 2.5mm of space on the crankshaft. By inserting the seal flush with the case the seal lip has about 7mm of space on the crankshaft flange so should be safer BUT if the seal has been in one spot for a while it's likely a shallow groove has started. It's better to choose a depth that allows the seal to seal on Virgin crankshaft.

Btw there is NO way a fully inserted seal blocks the oil holes.