Markoneus

Hey gents

I have an '86 951 that sadly just got rear-ended at 30mph and is totaled. (I'm fine, other than a broken heart.) The car was originally my father's, a Titanium Silver w/ Burgundy leather, sunroof, limited slip and Fuch's. He spent $40k in maintenance, then I spent another $19k in the last 4 yrs. (Yes, Ugh.) I'm having major arguments about what the car is worth with my insurance company, USAA, even though it was a Geico driver who was cited at fault for the incident and Geico is paying for it. Initially I was offered a mere $5500, and after throwing a fit and emailing them 50 links of 951s going for $10-$34k, they raised it to $9k. I feel it may be worth more.

Could use your advice on:
a) what the car is probably worth (Hegarty is saying $13,600 avg for 'good/ very good ones, Excellence is saying $9-13k)
b) how I can prove it to them, other than sending them links of recent listings/ sales

The car has had the following upgrades in the last 10k miles:
New AC (rebuilt)
New shocks all around
4 new tires (BF Goodrich SportComp 2 to fit original Fuchs)
New headgasket (WideFire) and head job
New water pump
New motor mounts
New timing belt
New castor mounts
New spark plugs
New distributor cap
New starter
New right rear axel and wheel bearing
Rebuilt steering rack
Alignment
$5k in replacing every known hose, belt, seal & O-ring throughout car to eliminate any oil or transmission leaks.

Plus: the car had a Vitesse Stage 2 turbo plus chip and cold air intake and was dyno'd at 295 hp.

Dash had ZERO cracks, and burgundy leather interior was in very good shape, though nowhere near concours.

Oil changed religiously every 3k w/ Mobile 1.

New shifter boot, and Becker/ Blaupunkt CDR 220 stereo w/ iPhone 6 compatible AUX plug/ charger.

EVERYTHING still worked on this car. Interior lights, power windows, power mirrors, sunroof, rear wiper, the works. It was incredibly well preserved.

The negatives are: high miles (159k) and the paint job wasn't perfect. Lacquer worn away under gas cap and keyed on right side, lots of chips in front. The seats are great other than driver’s side left bolster, which has a fair bit of wear.

But the car drove amazingly well, had huge power, was really tight, started great, and the brakes & clutch were still strong. It did NOT feel like a car w/ 159k miles.

Thoughts on its value and how I can prove its value? (No, I didn't have 'stated value' insurance, wasn't even aware of such a thing.)

Open to any and all advice, esp on possibly re-buying the salvaged car and maybe selling it to anyone who wants a parts car w/ a fantastic engine and countless other great parts. (I live in NYC and don't have a garage, so that ain't me.)

I'm attaching pix of both the week before it was totaled, and the shots after it was rear-ended (I was forced into the car in front of me, though I avoided it best I could, and left front wheel well and wheel were wrecked.) Note: obviously, car was not detailed or anything before accident, so pix would show much nicer if I was selling it.

Major thx in advance.

numbskull

Sorry to hear. That is just a terrible but you are lucky to be OK. Having gone through something similar you should be able to get $10K, and have them give you the car back to strip parts and salvage to get a bit more.

Turbodan

the mileage and not great paint and interior really hurt the value. Unfortunately you won't get much more than 10k which is the same if you were to try to sell before the accident. yes buy the car back for 1500 and swap out the parts to another car. Heck I'll buy the engine from you...pm me if you get the car and want to sell the engine.
sorry for your loss these are great cars and easy to get attached to. hopefully you did not get hurt.

docwyte

Sorry for your loss, but these cars really need to be insured with a stated value policy through Hagerty, Leland West etc.

That means having it garaged and having another car as a daily driver.

I also agree that getting $9-10k for the car is fair, that's all you could've sold it for....

odonnell

I can't tell from this pic, but it looks like the benz got the shaft, too. 944s are tanks.

The LSD, Fuchs, nice interior, good overall mechanical condition, and decent paint make it a 10k car at the least.

black944 turbo

I agree this that this would probably be a $10k car. The most important thing is that you are ok.

If you buy it back I may be interested in the Fuchs depending on price and shipping.

Best of luck to you.

Markoneus

Thank you, gentlemen for all the comments. Those of you who expressed interest in parts, I'll be in touch separately.

I guess I can't help but wonder if it might have gone for a bit more than $10k, given a lot of sales I see in places like here:
http://bringatrailer.com/search/?st=...sche+944+turbo

I think the comments about the interior would be a bit more flattering if the car had been detailed and seats freshly moisturized, etc.

The one thing I could use advice on is that my insurance company uses CCC One, an appraisal company that 9 out of 10 big insurance companies use, I guess. And their strategy to determine value is: find any and all identical cars within a 100 mine area of you that have sold in the last 90 days. As you can imagine, this strategy works fine w/ a 2012 Honda Accord, but not so w/ a 30 yr old Porsche. So they only two "examples" they found appear to not really be examples at all, but just "dealer estimates" and one is by a place that doesn't even have a website. It literally looks like they asked a guy who sells used Ford Escorts what he thinks it might be worth and he gave an estimate. My ins company isn't helping me push back on the vague reporting much.

here are their "comps"

Comp 1
1986 Porsche 944 4 2.5l Gasoline Turbocharged
Dealership Lefever Auto Sales Contact Lefever, Jake
Telephone (215) 723-9610 Source Dealer Quotation Stock # NA
Obtained Date: 07/01/2016 Distance from New York, NY 76 Miles - Harleysville, PA Comp 2
1986 Porsche 944 4 2.5l Gasoline Turbocharged
Dealership Aim Motors
Contact Bush, Howie
Telephone (732) 521-1212 Source Dealer Quotation Stock # NA
Obtained Date: 07/01/2016 Distance from New York, NY 35 Miles - Jamesburg, NJ

As you can see, no VIN #'s, no mileage given, and these guys are NOT Porsche experts. I have the option of having my own dealer/ expert go review the car and make his assessment, but car is located at
car is located at:
Insurance Auto Auctions
47 Newbury Rd
East Windsor, CT 06088

Anyone know a reliable 951 guy around there?

ian

I have been in your situation, and it wasn't an enjoyable experience dealing with the insurance company trying to get "fair value" for a totaled 951. The car can be replaced, and I'm sure it gets old to hear, but we can be thankful you are walking away unharmed from such a large impact.

That said, I think the $9,000 is a fair number for a car in that condition, and if you wanted to go out and buy a well maintained 86 for that sum, you could easily do so. Sure there are cars on BAT that have sold for a lot more money, but most of those are either a) super low mileage b) rare (ie Turbo S) c) perfect. The mileage, paint, interior are all working to counteract the value you can get from an extensive maintenance history. On the plus side, the $9,000 number is about $2,000 more than where comps would have gotten you just a few years ago.

SamGrant951

Id shoot for 10k and call it good, from their 9k offer that is easily doable. They want it over and done with quickly but you can make them wait a bit - heck ask for a 10k check plus the salvaged car back. Show them the hagerty chart with the values skyrocketing in the last year. As also having a 951 that was my fathers bought new - very sorry for your loss.

If it runs and drives (i.e. can be put on a trailer and shipped) Id possibly be interested in buying the whole car...too far away for me to drive/pickup.

Markoneus

Thx for the perspective.

Yes, I've shown them the Hegarty values, attached here, as well as 30 examples of recent sales in the last year or so, none lower than $9k, and they're just simply avoiding answering my questions when I say, "How are you guys not recognizing these documents as expert evidence and proof of value?" They won't even explain why they won't show me VIN #'s or photos of the "comp" cars.

Also, this notion of "negotiating" is vague to me. They appear to be saying, "The number is this. Let us know when you're ready to accept it." They say I can bring in my own dealer to look at it, but the time & cost might not be worth it. Advice no 'negotiating' welcome here, since they don't seem to be acknowledging my countless examples and counterarguments.

User 52121

Well I personally hope you get more than $9k for it (partially because I'm roughly considering selling mine)... I agree, in the insurance company eyes, the mileage is likely what's killing it. They tend to look at these things from the eyes of the "average person". And while WE here, as enthusiasts, know that a 150k mile 951, when properly maintained, can drive better than a lot of new cars... the average person would see the odo and run away screaming.

I'd try to get them up a little more, maybe $10k... then buy it back. Then call Lart. Or part it yourself.

Markoneus

Refresh me: Lart is a private parts guy/ source? Post his site? Located where, again?

And anyone know a dealer/ 951 expert in the Hartford, CT area I can hire to see my car and give an estimate?

SamGrant951

Lart is a parts guy in California.

Do you have a PCA group local to you that you could reach out to? Id start with the dealer Hoffman Porsche and ask if they have anyone that deals in classic / older porsches or who they would recommend for service/expertise on a 944T in your area. What credentials does the person evaluating your car need to possess exactly per the insurance company?

When I had my 951 insured for stated value I had to have someone write a letter evaluating its condition / value / modifications - I had a guy that I know locally that owns an exotic used car dealership complete this.

lart951

Please accept my apologies, if offend you with my opinion, usually it's the low miles unmolested original 951's that are getting the higher premiums, 100k miles and up with mods that actually brings the value down, I would estimate the value of your car right here in California from 7.5 to 9k max, not a perfect paint detracts at least 2.5-3k from the total value.
Buy the car back and part it you will get a good amount of money back.

Arominus

See if they will let you keep the car and still cut you a 9k check, then start parting it. Get it out of that lot ASAP.