Blown Head Gasket!!
10-15-2003, 01:59 PM
#16
Rennlist Junkie Forever
sh944
The reason I called it a piece of crap is because:
People think that because it's a "wide fire" gasket, that it is something special, that it's stronger than stock for some reason, and that it's less prone to fail than stock....
The fact is that the wide fire head gasket IS a stock head gasket, with the one exception that ONE SIDE of the fire ring is wider than the other side (which is the stock width).
The ONLY purposes of a wider side on the fire ring of the wide fire gasket is to try to keep the fire ring from deforming (becoming out of round).
It is in this respect that it is a piece of crap because even with the wider side, the fire ring still deforms. Thus the wider side does not solve the problem as intended. And if the manufactures knew there was a problem with deformed fire rings, which they must have to manufacture the wide fire in the first place, they should have done a better job with a different design.
It is in this respect that proper air fuel ratios/tuning will not prevent a failed head gasket. And in this respect, it will not save any engine from failing like people would think using the "the head gasket serves as a safety-valve argument.
Once the fire rings deforms, and it doesn't take much, cylinder pressure will enter the cooling system...... and you know the rest of that story.
What really gets me... is that even to manufacture the wide fire, with its difference soley intended to prevent fire ring deformation, is an admitance of the knowledge that there is this specific problem. And if they knew that there was (is) a problem, the design should have been much stonger to begin with.... especially if it's being manufactured and sold with the sole purpose to try to prevent the deformed rings.
This is where the full metal gasket comes in. It cannot deform or become out of round. Thus the problem of deformed fire rings is no longer an issue.
The reason I called it a piece of crap is because:
People think that because it's a "wide fire" gasket, that it is something special, that it's stronger than stock for some reason, and that it's less prone to fail than stock....
The fact is that the wide fire head gasket IS a stock head gasket, with the one exception that ONE SIDE of the fire ring is wider than the other side (which is the stock width).
The ONLY purposes of a wider side on the fire ring of the wide fire gasket is to try to keep the fire ring from deforming (becoming out of round).
It is in this respect that it is a piece of crap because even with the wider side, the fire ring still deforms. Thus the wider side does not solve the problem as intended. And if the manufactures knew there was a problem with deformed fire rings, which they must have to manufacture the wide fire in the first place, they should have done a better job with a different design.
It is in this respect that proper air fuel ratios/tuning will not prevent a failed head gasket. And in this respect, it will not save any engine from failing like people would think using the "the head gasket serves as a safety-valve argument.
Once the fire rings deforms, and it doesn't take much, cylinder pressure will enter the cooling system...... and you know the rest of that story.
What really gets me... is that even to manufacture the wide fire, with its difference soley intended to prevent fire ring deformation, is an admitance of the knowledge that there is this specific problem. And if they knew that there was (is) a problem, the design should have been much stonger to begin with.... especially if it's being manufactured and sold with the sole purpose to try to prevent the deformed rings.
This is where the full metal gasket comes in. It cannot deform or become out of round. Thus the problem of deformed fire rings is no longer an issue.
10-15-2003, 02:15 PM
#17
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Rennlist Member
Other variables- stretched head bolts (non uniform clamping pressure), slight warp of the head, "hot spots" on the squish area of the head causing incipent detonation.
Tony- I can get them made from copper, any benefit in that?
Tony- I can get them made from copper, any benefit in that?
10-16-2003, 12:48 PM
#19
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Well, Good news.
My mechanic did honour the warranty on my rebuilt engine after 1.5 years and 20,000km (although I'm not really sure when the gasket died).
#1 and #4 were both broken into pieces. #2 and #3 were fine. Gaskets were stock as they are now again. He's not sure why it happened and it's happened on a few cars he's done within the past year. Torque was to spec. On some cars he thinks the gasket sealant used might have caused a problem. There's no sealant on mine now.
Bad batch of gaskets from the manufacturer? It's a mystery. But he did agree that it was premature failure.
Pekster, which garage do you use? Do you go to Henry too?
My mechanic did honour the warranty on my rebuilt engine after 1.5 years and 20,000km (although I'm not really sure when the gasket died).
#1 and #4 were both broken into pieces. #2 and #3 were fine. Gaskets were stock as they are now again. He's not sure why it happened and it's happened on a few cars he's done within the past year. Torque was to spec. On some cars he thinks the gasket sealant used might have caused a problem. There's no sealant on mine now.
Bad batch of gaskets from the manufacturer? It's a mystery. But he did agree that it was premature failure.
Pekster, which garage do you use? Do you go to Henry too?
10-17-2003, 04:42 AM
#20
Copper head gaskets always leak. Its very common and expected. No problem if understood. The way to seal them is to use silk thread around all passages. Typically some sort of sealing ring is used around Cylinder bores. Cooper rings are common. If you see some water coming out and down the side of the block, its only system pressure leaking.
Remember, these Gaskets were designed for racing where the engine did limited life. For street use, you picked the wrong sort. Use the MLS Gaskets that Performance Developments provides. They provide these Gaskets to all of the vendors on this forum who offer these MLS Gaskets. Most offer just the standard bore sizes but PD can supply you many different bores sizes for both 951 and 968 engines.
Remember, these Gaskets were designed for racing where the engine did limited life. For street use, you picked the wrong sort. Use the MLS Gaskets that Performance Developments provides. They provide these Gaskets to all of the vendors on this forum who offer these MLS Gaskets. Most offer just the standard bore sizes but PD can supply you many different bores sizes for both 951 and 968 engines.
10-17-2003, 04:47 AM
#21
BTW, Stefan, many times the Gaskets fail because of intense chaffing between the head and Block. That is why it is very inportant to have very low RA numbers on both the sealing surfaces. 951 Gaskets also fail often because of unsupported areas of the Gasket, which comes into contact with the coolant. When the main part of the Gasket fails the Sealing rings are not supported and fail soon after. Hope you have better luck. Its a shame you did not use the MLS Gasket. Its light years better than the old style Stock gasket.
