Cheburator

Belongs to a friend. His dad bought it at 2yrs old back in 1990 from Porsche Zentrum Hamburg (The Wall had just collapsed, Bulgaria was freed from the Commies, he had started his own business, made his first decent wedge) Anyway, he kept the car, added many more powerful MBs and BMW along the way, but the 944 was always garaged and used sparingly. It was in collectable condition as it had only done 50k miles between 1988 and 2010.

And then he decided that the time was right to turbo it. I tried telling him that it was better to buy a 944T as a starting point. He said that he had been through thick and thin with that car, hence it was a keeper, and that he wanted the ability to surprise AMGs and RS6s...

The project was entrusted to http://www.prospeed.bg/en/home

Darton Wet sleeves, Pankl rods, custom JE pistons to give 9.5:1, 968 intake valves, ported head, Kent cam re-profiled cams, custom equal length exhaust manifold, ball bearing turbo, tial wastegate, custom intake, bigger injectors, 044 pump controlled by the MOTEC, EBC controlled by the MOTEC, distributorless (dunno how to say it in English - it is not COP) ignition, custom intercooler, It also got KW 2-Competition suspension and Big Red/4-pot rears conversion. The list goes on and on...

It was mapped on a Dynapack, where from memory made 530rwph at 1.5bar at 7250rpm

And then it went back into the garage, where it lives now for most of the time. My memory from it is that it was scarily fast on boost, but reasonably pleasant off boost too due to the higher compression. The main task for the guys at Prospeed was driveability. It was achieved, but the costs in monetary terms were quite significant...

Voith

1.5 bar @ 9.5:1 gives ECR 23.52. That is way too much for 944 or any engine to handle.

Cheburator

It appears that you know more about engines than the guys who build the fastest Audi S1 in the World from scratch.... Please, please, please, for the love of God, unless you have something useful to contribute, stay out of this...

1. E46 M3 Race car which belongs to my brother 11.5:1 static, 1bar of boost, ECR of 22.84 Shell V-Power 100

2. Z3M Coupe G-Power Evo III, which was shared between me and my brother 10.5:1 static, 1.2bar of boost, ECR of 22.93 Shell V-Power 100

3. Mustang GT 5.0 which belongs to my brother 9.5:1 static, 1.5bar boost, ECR of 23.56 and it gets driven daily Shell V-Power 100

4. Friend's drag special Opel Red top based - 12.5:1 static and 2.7bar peak boost, ECR of 45.79 - the engine survives a day at the races, which is plenty. Obviously does not run on pump fuel

blade7

Thanks for the info. No doubt the 16v head is capable of very high output.

Voith

Standard US NA 944 sports CR 9.5:1

This is what happens when it is running ECR ~20 ON E85

http://www.roguetuning.com/944na_internals_-_the_limit

Cheburator

Voith, are you an idiot? Seriously?!

The car has had the following work done to it:

Darton Wet sleeves, Pankl rods, custom JE pistons to give 9.5:1, 968 intake valves, ported head, Kent cam re-profiled cams, custom equal length exhaust manifold, ball bearing turbo, tial wastegate, custom intake, bigger injectors, 044 pump controlled by the MOTEC, EBC controlled by the MOTEC, distributorless (dunno how to say it in English - it is not COP) ignition, custom intercooler and a few other things. The co-owner of Prospeed is actually a MSc in Internal Combustion Engine Design, who probably knows a thing or two. This was not just parts stuck together, hoping they will survive. Prospeed does have access to Engine design/simulation software, which you have not seen/cannot afford.

Please, do me a favour and check how much a set of Pankl rods costs. Let me put it into a perspective - the custom exhaust manifold - 4 equal length - in SS cost in the region of EUR1650 alone, and that's paying BG wages to the fabricator. The ECU and associated wiring harness come to more than EUR5k alone...

Check out the flow numbers for a 16v head vs a 8v head. Also, the shape of the combustion chamber in the 16v head allows for much higher compression ratios before detonation can occur. Both in NA and turbo applications. Basic engine 101...

Lastly, which part of this car is standard? How can you compare it to a stock 944 NA, which had a Turbo put on it. Wtf? Anything to say about the cars that I/we have and drive daily? Also, on the 928 forum there is a bone stock bi-turbo S4 on quite a few miles and original paper gasket pushing 700+ on pump gas. Do me a favour and read the thread to check the boost/static/effective and dynamic compression ratios. Ok?

I know who Akrapovic is. He builds amazing exhausts, what has that got to do with 944 16v Turbo engines. Prospeed are European Hill Climb Champions for 2014 and keep winning most of the races they participate in, running a Group B S1 Audi replica, which happens to be a lot quicker than the original. Just Google YouTube Audi S1 Prospeed...

Voith

COP is COIL ON SPARK PLUG how the hell do you use sparks without coils?? MOTEC has magic packed in to it but it only can be said in archaic Bulgarian language or what?

I am familiar with pankl and its pricing, own pankl rod bolts, 5k+ standalone setup and 3.5k turbo for my car.

944 engine has its limits no matter what parts you throw in and I don't believe 23.5 ECR 944 engine will work for long. There are engines that can pull it off like audi 5cyl and some others, but not 944.

Check out top 944/968 cars on here and what do they run and why.

JustinL

I'm thoroughly enjoying the banter and posturing in this thread!

Although I can't weigh in on the M5 side of things, I do have an E46 M3 that I've worked on as well as a number of 944s. The M3 is so much newer and built with far more disposable parts. Coolant connectors are all plastic, the engine is a masterpiece but has it's share of weaknesses and needs (VANOS, alternators, valve service, coils). The E46 chassis is again similar, very modern by comparison, but with some crappy components like the bushings and it's tendency to rip out the rear sub frame mounts. The 944 tub is an antique design, but built like a tank. Both are easy to work on for different reasons. The 944 for the most part is very simple, but everything is so old now that anything non-metal breaks. The M3 has much smaller components that are sometimes hard to reach, but it seems like it was designed with serviceability in mind.

I also want a video of a 35min clutch change! From parked to ready to drive in 35 minutes sounds like BS.

Cheburator

The system they use is like COP, but the coils are not on the spark plug but near the bulkhead- modifying the 16v cam covers to accept real COP was deemed not cost effective. The engine does not have a distributor obviously.

Of course it has limits. However, when the build is designed and executed properly the limits are a lot higher than you think. Prospeed were one the first tuners in the World to push the old Audi 4-cylinder 1.8 20v engine beyond 500bhp in a Street car. When they did it in 2009 people everywhere did not believe them. Now this is common practice. Btw, the engine is still running and it has not been rebuild since then

Lastly, this is a Street engine - it does not spend time and time at max rpm and boost, which kind of helps ...

EliteThink

the problem is today's bmw, bigger, heavier, more computers, and more expensive to repair than ever. Love the original m3's. There are some cars i would only drive under warranty.