Dan87951

I have always lusted after a E39 M5 but scared to death to touch one after our E38 experience. Our E38 was only 5 years old and had less than 60k miles at the time and it was the most unreliable car we have ever owned. No doubt it was one of the best land yachts to drive but the reliability killed the ownership experience. My neighbor has a newer 5 series and the flat bed visits him about once a month to haul it back to the dealer to get repaired so I don't think our experience was isolated. Even my local dealer is back logged with BMW's in the service bay. lol

AlphaOmegaPower

Lmao

fiily

When I was a wee lad, my mother bought a new 1988 E30 M3, cinnabar red with black interior. What a car! I never drove anything so fast and just fun to drive back then.

She drove back to NH from Montreal in 1.5hrs, if I remember 152mph all the way back home is what she said, crazy momma!

That being said, it was abysmal maintenance wise and reliability was miserable at best.

DasSilberWedge

I dunno, our E60 M5 has been essentially bullet proof for the last 4 years but isn't a daily driver. Rod bearings are akin to our timing chain & pad tensioners issue, just costs a lot more to deal with - it's their only real weakness. Not a terrible DIY compared to what we do on this forum anyways. It really isn't that bad. E9x M3s suffer the same problems as, in layman's terms, the engine is essentially the same minus 2 cylinders. Parts aren't cheap but doing a lot of research goes a long way.

There's nothing else like that engine, nor will there most likely ever be.. The way it accelerates is like an elastic band, it seemingly just accelerates at a faster and faster rate. Massively addicting. Outstanding sound. Definitely one of the most entertaining cars I've ever driven and been lucky enough to own. Chassis is actually unbelievably good for a car its size but different animal to the 944. Beautiful steering weight, good feel.

I just don't understand why people complain so badly about this car. Every car has inherit problems & it is no exception. Large displacement, high-revving engines aren't going to cost the same as a Prius or Civic to run and maintain. I think most of these newer E60 owners jump in on these high-mileage cars expecting to put little money into them (for whatever reason.. Most likely because prices have unfortunately fallen so low) and immediately complain once something goes wrong. 99% of the time they have no to little hands on experience and get intimidated by the complexity of the car, leaving it to the stealerships to service/fix the cars. It's usually the same story with "inexpensive" used, performance vehicles. How many people for instance have bought cheap 944s thinking they're going to get away without spending what they purchased the car for?

On a side note, I'd honestly avoid 99% of posts from M5board.com now too. Used to be a great place but unfortunately most of the sane people who used to know anything have seemingly left.. Some good guys are still around but it's largely fallen to threads containing, "Is GVW my dry weight?"... I kid you not. Best bet IMO is to find a specialist or long time E60 owner if you are serious about buying one.

*end rant*

Marvinta

e36 M3, took to work every day as well as to occasional track days, no problems.
E46 M3 , same. 335xi now my daily driver (no more track days) 60k mile 6 years later no problems. Wife's 6401 Gran coupe, no problems. Prior to that 3281 coupe, no problems. A few horror stories do not a brand make. I will say this, of all the cars the 2013 328 was my least favorite. The fit and finish were a disappointment. The e36 M3 was my favorite, pretty easily too.

philip77o

I daily drived e36 325is and 328is for a long time and had a 325is drift car with 200000+ miles they were great car and really easy to work. If I could have found a stock 95 m3 I think I would not even own a 951... I also read somewhere that the s54b32 is one of the best engine.

As for the m5 I don't know much about them but I doubt they are that bad...

lee101315

Typically what happens when you give irresponsible owners a high revving, totally strung out engine.

Banging the rpm limiter on cold oil in low gears and mercilessly wailing on the car at high rpm every time you drive tends to cause the rod bearings to fail.

Damn BMW, when are you going to make magic rod bearings impregnated with pixie dust? Get with the program...

EVOMMM

I think these cars should be compared at same years I think the e39 were more computer heavy which may costing more to repair/maintain all of my bmw experiences have been good to excellent maybe we should compare similar jobs and part cost to get a better idea of real world costs

Bluemach1

Just keep in mind when comparing E39's, a 540i V8 and an M5 V8 are not equal. While the chassis and electrics are comparable, the engines are not. The S62 in the M5 is a lot more temperamental. With care and proper maintenance, it is fantastic. The nice thing about the E39 M5 is that the software is fully accessible for troubleshooting. The gearbox is just about bulletproof. Additionally, there is a large, very knowledgeable following similar to the 944 world. There probably isn't a fault that hasn't been dealt with already. Once you move out of the mechanical discussion and into the electrics and such, there are plenty of bugs that will keep you busy.

If you are mechanically inclined, I highly recommend the E39 M5. I love mine. My only word of advice, and this goes for any classic performance car, buy the best example your money will buy. Don't cheap out and buy an abused high mileage bucket. Get as much documented service history you can.

Also, once you test drive an M5, you will know instantly that its characteristics are completely different than the 944. It is a much heavy unit. If you want something that is similar in the weight feel, maybe consider the M3.

DasSilberWedge

+1, I have a friend who recently picked up a late E90 335xi sedan and just puts it to the floor when cold... The issues soon ensue.

DasSilberWedge

We've also got a manual E46 325i Touring that is the daily (owned for over 4 years), zero problems and it gets driven pretty hard. Love the car to death.

Cheburator

E61 M5 (the V10 Wagon that the US did not get) former owner here...

Comparing the 944 engine to the V10 can only make me laugh - and I am a massive 928 fanboy, which supplied 1/2 of the 944 lump. Even the 928 V8 is agricultural compared to the S85. One is very old tech, some bits are over-engineered, some bits are under, and the other was at the cutting edge of engine design.

204mph on a GPS in a family wagon on the Autobahn, in total comfort, on my way to the Nurburgring. And yet, the car would also pootle around town.

Lastly, I cannot believe people are slating the bearing issue that the S85 can experience, while ignoring the 2 or 2/6 rod bearing failure that heavily tracked 944/928s regularly experience.

Seriously, built me a NA 944 engine which makes 100hp/ltr and is good for 100k+ of daily abuse and then you can slate the V10.

Porsches are good, but denying that BMW is the master of performance saloons based on forum hearsay is just.....

FRporscheman

I used to work at an indy european shop in a small town when I was in school. They specialized in BMW but it was the only european shop for about 10 miles so we got all kinds of cars in there. However, most of the Benzes, Volvos, VWs etc would be in there for maintenance or routine repairs like leaks or worn out parts, and they were usually older models. Most of the BMWs coming in were 0-15 years old. There was a local BMW dealer but they were usually too busy. I will say that the inline-6 engines rarely came in with major engine problems (but they still came in for cracked cooling systems, etc). We loved hearing 540s and 740s roll in with rattling vanos... My boss would best describe that sound as "chaching."

To be fair, we got a few 986s bellowing smoke, W210s needing all new suspension rubber, A4s and A6s leaking like sieves... It was a bad time for German cars. It's not fair to compare a 2000s car to an 80s car. But fairness aside, I say the 944 is built much better. Doesn't mean it's perfect, though. It has oiling issues, delaminating hatch, fragile sunroof gears, poorly located plastic HCV, etc.

lee101315

Hmmm, I guess you didnt hang around long enough to see all the N54 I-6's destroy the exhaust cam and bearing carriers due to a lack of lubrication. Or the intermittent starting issue because of the fuse box. All things considered, still a great car.

The W210 was a super solid, reliable car. As for suspension... you know that your typical drivers cant avoid potholes and rough roads. However, 2006-2008 Mercedes have big problems with the balance shaft gear and I never advise buying them.

And Audi/VW? They age terribly. I kicked them out of my shop because they are heaps of junk... It got to the point where I was tired of doing engine repairs on 2.0ts that broke their timing chains before 65000 miles.

DasSilberWedge

Couldn't have said it better

Edit: Doesn't the OP have an DB9?..