Eric_Oz_S2

Today I ran in a auto cross style event at a driver training circuit. All I can say is with what happened I'm glad I wasn't at a track day that was originally scheduled. The circuit was low speed, no more than 2nd gear. Well going into a corner the pedal went to the floor. Luckily I was able to drift through the corner without coming off. Upon inspection the aftermarket custom braided brake lines had pulled out of the caliper at the fitting. The crimp connection at the fitting grips a short tube of rubber that then clamps the line. These lines were to be fair probably nearly 10 years old, but the way they gave way without warning was scary. I keep thinking what would have happened if I was on track at 200 km/h and that happened - probably wouldn't be here to talk about it. This is the first "low speed" event I have done in a while, most events I enter are super sprints - high speed.

So I now need new lines. I'm thinking is it really worth going with stainless braid again and is there really a performance benefit? At least with stock rubber lines they should be more reliable. Interesting that googling braided lines that I am not alone in this type of failure. I have read suggestions that braided lines should be replaced every season.

So is there r e a l l y a benefit in braided lines? Do they really feel better than new stock rubber lines. At least you can inspect rubber lines, the braided lines showed zero evidence of impending failure.

What's the consensus?

Smudo

I just replaced my old brake lines with OE rubber ones and thay are fine on the track. I do not have experiance with braided lines but I would rather use ones that have been proven as safe ones because I would hate to think that I can loose the brakes just before a fast corner.

ried

I thought the whole point of stainless steel braided brake lines was for increased reliability, i.e. less flex in the line over time compared to rubber. Your post makes me think twice about using them.

Voith

What brand were you using?

931guru

Braided lines actually limit your ability to visually inspect the hose inside for cracks. In addition, when (not if) the braid starts to unweave, the individual strands can poke into the hose, causing a leak. For that reason, most of the track junkies I know stick with the original rubber hoses.

Oddjob

Glad nothing happened. The brakes are the most important system on a track car, and maybe only a tire blow out at high speed can be a similar catastrophic risk as a brake failure.

Assuming it was a front line? Can you post pics of the failure point and also of the other side line connection? Might be of benefit for the rest of us, to see what to watch for.

I know brake lines can get pulled, tugged on, kinked during maintenance (removing calipers and suspension parts). Always a concern, and the brake lines probably should be on a routine replacement schedule (though Im sure seldom are for most of us). My current set has been on the car for probably 12+ years, and is likely overdue.

MAGK944

Could that rubber near the caliper be weakened, not only from flexing, but from heat conducted through the braid from the disc and caliper?

George D

Quote: Upon inspection the aftermarket custom braided brake lines had pulled out of the caliper at the fitting. The crimp connection at the fitting grips a short tube of rubber that then clamps the line.

Did the rubber tube fail? What calipers are you using to require a rubber hose? Glad you're ok.

Most OE Porsche motorsport brake lines are braided with steel as well, just on the inside. Most aftermarket braided steel lines are constructed the same way, just use a stainless sheath instead of the rubber cover.

A friend, Mark Mehalic, crashed his 911 into a wall at 150mph. He lived, but he's had multiple surgeries from breaking most bones below the knees. Hydraulic issue, not the calipers or lines. Scary ordeal, saw the pictures and his x rays before and after all the screws, pins, etc. He's not enjoying security at airports.

Are your brake lines attached like mine?

mikey_audiogeek

Eric, sorry to hear this, glad you're ok.
One of the reasons that braided lines are not "preferred" for road vehicles is that they give little warning of failure. Aside from external damage, they're not an inspectable item and should be replaced more regularly than traditional rubber hoses. Like most things on a race car.
Cheers,
Mike

Eric_Oz_S2

I'll post a pic of the hose failure tonight. The brand were brakequip, an Australian brand and custom made. Australian design rules (ADR) are strict with modifications including using braided brake lines. These lines were actually ADR approved.

Upon googling I have found that these lines were eventually found to be of poor design and have some history of failure. This is probably good for the rest of you as most here won't be using this brand. The lines include a section of plastic/rubber between the swage crimp and stainless braid. This piece if plastic/rubber has deteriorated which has weakened the bond between the crimp and hose. Most ss hoses have this piece in aluminium if I'm not mistaken.

What was an eye opener is that when this failed there was NO braking whatsoever. Imagine having that at the end of a straight with a concrete wall in front if you....

Eric_Oz_S2

Quite possibly the case. Looks like poor design. At least with rubber hoses the hose is of one section and it is very difficult for the hose to pull out. And really, does the stainless Braid afford that much protection over rubber? What do the carerra cup cars use for hoses?

Eric_Oz_S2

Standard brembo front calipers (non m030).

Looks the same as yours.

ehall

Glad you're okay, mate!

Cyberpunky

Glad you are OK Eric. I once had brake fade(to the point of no brakes at all) coming down the Mountain(Falls Creek) and have never been so scared behind the wheel. When I went SS braided lines, the only difference I noticed was a little more feel on the edge of lock up(non ABS car). Day to day was exactly the same.

Voith

Me too, brake fluid boiled and I was luckier than I know..

I have a set of new magnum brand braided lines that I intended to use, but now I am not sure anymore. Anyone know if this magnum company is any good or is this some generic china stuff? They look like quality stuff.