seattle951

I would like to participate at an upcoming DE day in Seattle but have tire concerns and a limited budget. Can someone validate my theory?

My 1986 944 Turbo makes about 320 RWHP (Mustang) and has a 6-Speed LSD. The car was brought out of storage in January after sitting for 5 years. The tires were purchased 2 years prior to being put into storage (7+ years old). The fronts or 255/40 17s and the rears are 285/40 17s.

After coming out of storage, the fluids were changed, the wiring harness was replaced and timing belt changed. The car is running great.

The shop alerted me that the front tires were out of round and cracked. The car had a small wobble while driving (now perfect). I replaced the front tires with all season Michelin Pilot Sports. The rear tires are original. They are Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 Max Performance summer tires. There is no evidence of cracking, air holding capacity issues, or imbalance issues. The tread has 95% of it left. However, when the fronts were changed, the tire tech said that the tires are dried out.

On dry pavement at 45 degrees, the tires break loose under moderate acceleration in 2nd gear at 4,000 rpms. The turbo spools quickly but reaches its max at about 4,000. I am trying to determine if the lack of traction is a result of the temperature or the hardening of the tire.

I would like to do the DE day, but I do not have the immediate cash flow to drop $400 dollars on new rear tires. Also, the only tires available in this size are Max Performance summer. Would I still have issues with a 45 degree track?

I am guessing that I am going to have to sit out the first few DE days. Also, I may have to change to 275s to get access to all weather tires. Thoughts?

User 52121

Don't take this the wrong way, but... if you can't afford new tires, you can't afford to DE.

Don't skimp. Tires are what connect you to the pavement. Rubber dries out. Even if no cracking is evident. I wouldn't run on anything that's more than a couple years old. 5+ is too old.

You shouldn't have any issues in the cooler temps, just allow yourself more time for the tires to warm up.

Spidey944

Time to save up for a set of track wheels and tires. After running one session on R-comps you'll never want to go back to DOT's again

Smudo

I would not recommend all season tires for a DE event. I would suggest to go with some stratable semislicks front and rear if you want to be fast. If you are participating just for fun, than buy the same model rear tires (that you just bought for the front) so you have the same ones in front and rear.

disasterman

I would not even go to the track if you know it's going to be that cold. You can't get heat into the tires and yes, wait until you can afford some tires.

seattle951

I am definitely doing this for fun, and I am not interested in separate set of rims/tires just for DE days. It would be a waste of money. (I have probably done about 10 DE days already, but always on fresh rubber.) My concern is that the current tires have lost their ability to grab because of age. True/Not true?

Michelin does not make the size I need for the rear. In a 285/40 17, there is a very small selection for Max Performance Summer tires available.

seattle951

You are much more serious about this hobby than I am. I just enjoy the occasional day at the track.

v8killer

Other than r compound tires I do not believe there are any sizes larger than 17/40/275s unless you go all the way up to a 315.

v8killer

I stand corrected. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...40&diameter=17

seattle951

Thanks, you are confirming that tires spoil with age. Too bad, the tread is like new. I hate to just throw them away.

Spending $800 for a single day (fees, tech inspection, tires) at the track just is not worth it. If the tires were not streetable, then I could justify the expense. But, for a single track day, it just is not worth it. Thanks for the input.

User 52121

Sorry man. They do indeed dry out. Better to spend a few hundred on tires than to spend a few thousand putting the car back together after an off-track excursion.

seattle951

These are all summer tires. I want to use one set of tires all year long. Seattle is rainy and chilly most of the year. We get a short period of cold weather with occasional snow. We also get a few hot days in the summer. The rest of the year is cool and wet. My understanding is that summer tires are not good for this scenario.

If I move down to 275s, there are a more choices including all season.

mr965

Upgrade the tires as a first step to see if you enjoy the track hobby enough to go down the slippery slope that is this serious track addiction

seattle951

I already know that I like track days. I am just not willing to throw out a set of tires with only 2k miles. I was hoping that the tire tech was exaggerating about the tires getting too hard with age. However, the ease at which the tires break traction at low temperature was already a concern. I wasn't sure if it was that the pavement was too cold for summer tires or that they had just dried out. The consensus appears to be that age is a bigger factor than temp.

Droops83

I completely understand the notion of wanting to get your money's worth out of your tires, but it doesn't matter if the tires have 2K miles or 20K miles, that fact that they are 9+ years old almost disqualifies them from being road-worthy, let alone track-worthy. Even when not exposed to UV rays, rubber dries out and hardens and loses its properties as others have mentioned.

I deal with the tire age issue all the time with customer cars; I am constantly begging and pleading with some to replace their old tires on low-mileage cars, but they don't always listen. We don't sell tires, so we don't have any other interest but customer's safety. I often drive Porsches/BMWs before and after old tires are replaced, and the difference can be night and day, even on the street.

I hate to bring it up, but the tires on the Carrera GT in which Paul Walker lost his life were over 9 years old, and this was cited in the final police report. I'm not saying that a set of new shoes would have definitely saved him, but it might have helped or made the accident less severe.

Just some food for thought.