I have an 88 Turbo S. Just purchased a few weeks ago. I took the car in to be looked at by my mechanic and to have all the belts hoses etc replaced. The car ran well, but boost was late due to the turbo S turbo and europroducts chips the previous owner installed without wastegate shims etc. It was a good quick car though and I have driven it 1000 miles or so with no problems at all. So before I took the car to the shop I purchased the GURU Chip kit for my turbo S and when I took the car to my mechanic I asked that he install the GURU kit while he checks out the car replacing belts/hoses etc.
Well, my mechanic found that the turbo has a slightly chipped impellar and mentioned that I should replace/rebuild it to me on the phone? So I looked on the classifieds and got the k26/6 (non S) turbo which I now have. It was a low mileage turbo, but not the S the smaller k26/6. I figured it would be a slight downgrade, but the guru chip kit would make up for it, and i might get boost earleir with the smaller turbo anyway?

So now the car has the wastegate shimmed, the reliaboost installed at 15spi, Still has the stock k26/8 turbo with a very small chip in 1 impellar on it. The 3 bar FPR and an analog boost gauge installed.

Should I go ahead and put the k26/6 turbo on the car now and rebuild my k26/8 ? Or should I just leave the K26/8 on the car with the chipped impellar until I decide what path to take later on? Maybe using the new k26/6 to rebuild to a k27/6 or garrett T04b? I have been told if I put the smaller turbo on i will need a new DME chip? And at this point i just want the car back. Its a second car and I can take my time with it, but I want to do things right the first time around and not waste any more money than I already have.

any ideas?

 

It's all a matter of personal taste and choices. If it were me, I'd stuff the biggest most modern turbo in there that will fit. Course, that's just me. I do think you can do better than the k26 though. The Huntley turbo on my car makes lots more power with the same or less lag than a k26, so the only downside is cost. I personally would wait rather than put a non-S turbo in an S car.

 

I agree with Tom totally. By the way keep all of your stock items that you change in the car. Some argue that the 951S is worth more in stock condition. That being said I am in the process of upgrading Baby.

I went with the Lindsey Racing's Sport Turbo. It cost the same as the Windward turbo upgrade (do your research on them on this board first). Further, its almost a bolt on. I had to play with and modify some of the coolant pipes and change the position of the wires coming out of the back of the alternator. Remember, if you upgrade your turbo you also have to upgrade your fuel management system.

I did find two places that would build a new turbo for less than Lindsey Mystic (TX) and another in CO. However, I didn't know enough about ratios, turbines, etc to make an intelligent decision and I wanted a true bolt in that I could do myself. I suggest getting Maximum Boost by Corky Bell to get a good baseline understanding of turbocharger systems.

Having a chip in your impeller is a different twist. There has been many advances in turbocharger technology since our car were produced. Additionally, its been reported that the Garrett turbochargers have less lag then the KKK. Good luck and remember one word " Valentine"

 

I get tired of hearing all this talk about "new technology", and "new designs" and "turbo design has come a long way".

But I have gotta tell ya... that it's tough to beat a K27/6 turbo which is a true bolt-on turbo, retains the 100% reliability of the KKK design, and makes excellent power, excellent throttle response, fast turbo spool, and good top end.

Here's a dyno of one of my previous 951's that was running a K27/6, Bursh test pipe, 52lbs injectors, Deltagate with manual boost controller, and a HR stage 3 MAF kit with ARC2 fuel controller, and adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and a set of Huntley chiips. That's it... no other modifications. This is a typical bolt-on 951...




The only thing this car needed was a new set of plugs and wires... which is why on this dyno, you see some jaggedness.... which was later fixed.

So for those of you recommending a better turbo for a real everyday street car, put up your dynos... (and the turbos have to be straight bolt-on turbos..)... with no other engine work... bone stock... 17psi boost on pump gas.


>>> I have to add this... the description on the dyno is incorrect. I never had a Extrude Honed intake until way after this dyno was produced nor did the car have the Powerhaus head (which never did much anyway :-) Also the MAF kit was the HR stage 3 not the HR stage 1 (I've never owned a stage 1 kit!)

The dyno shop pulled in that description from the car that was run before me....


Ahhhh back in the old days!


That dyno run is very typical of the K27/6 setup. George Darling who sold his Turbo S to a guy here on So Cal had the K27/6 on his car and he pretty much had identical dyno runs... FWIW

 

Oh... and with respect to running a turbo with a chipped blade..


Keep running it if you want to trash the engine. If that compressor blade comes apart, which it could very easily due to the imbalance of the wheel which can spin at well over 75,000 rpms, you will put metal through the engine, which will destroy the cylinder bores, and probably some valves and could very welll damage the cylinder head. Not a very smart move.

 

Yea, Well as we speak I already have the k26/6 being put on the car. I am speaking with lindsey racing today about the pipe we talked about on the phone Tony. The one which will help me switch out my turbo faster. I will probably end up getting this product so i can swap turbos out faster?

Also this way I get the car back on the road and can still drive etc. Danno is sending me a new chip for the smaller k26/6 turbo vs the k26/8 stock, so I should still have a good running car and i can either get another turbo(k27/6 or other) or have the k26/8 rebuilt. At any rate I will not be running a bad turbo on the car.

Tony your DYNO looks good. And the idea of a bolt up turbo is definately the way to go. I had rather not go with anything other than kkk since they have such a good record of long use.
But for now my Turbo S is downgrading to a Turbo?

Just until I can get another game plan in motion though!

thanks everyone.


Brian

 

I agree with Tony,

I've used/installed/replaced many turbos. Seems to be the Garrets that most prone for over oiling and smoking. Infact, all we will work with on street cars are the KKK line. Tony's car was fast, the KKK K27/6 is a quick spool efficient turbo, and its built to handle the oil pressure/amount that our cars give them. We will use garrets on the race cars, but thats about it. The main reason, if there is any mods to be done in order to make the turbo fit, its ok...most are one off custom jobs anyway, and the second reason..who cares if its puffing smoke on the grid, its not like your sitting at a red light with your date in the car looking like a fog machine.

Just my thoughts.

 

Brian,
I sent you an email last night

 

Mike,

Sent you a quick reply. Let me wait until i get the car back this week and we can talk. I will get with you first thing I promise.


thanks,


Brian

 

I have a vitesse' garret hybrid with no smoking(fog machine effects). It was a straight bolt on, Water/oil cooled. I haven't hit the dyno for #'s but its fast as hell !!

 

I also run the Vitesse stage 1 kit with the T04E.As evil said ,it bolts on with a little work on water pipe and intake manifold grinding (no rocket science).

It will not smoke,except for a split second , when full boost hits,then you see a small puff come out and that is it.The turbo is great,it pulls like hell.

The puff of smoke that comes out under boost,is probably caused by the crank case breather,sucking in the oil fumes.

Anyway,I would not hesitate to buy another one again.

 

Thanks guys, I have already been emailing John (Vitesse) back and forth but he is out of the country until mid Sept. Since we are both in Atlanta, it only makes sense to use him.

I am going to see him when he gets back to Atlanta. I will let him give me some direction.
My car is stock, so there are other areas I need to address before I jump into a monster turbo? But I will let him give me some ideas. I know i need new wastegate larger injectors etc before his turbos will work with my car.

As of now I should have my Turbo S back with the k26/6 turbo(only 27k miles on the turbo) and 100k on the car. I will get it dyno tested soon after to see what I have at the wheels. Danno said to look at maybe 230RWHP with his chips, shimmed wastegate, 3 bar FPR, all new hoses and belts clamps etc. Reliaboost set to 15PSI on this k26/6 turbo.
Thats more than it had stock S had anyway
So I expect it to still perform as well if not slightly better than my stock turbo S did. When I took the car in it was not running well anyway!
hopefuly I will not be dissapointed.

 

Tony,

I just finished my install. It was as I stated a straight bolt on with no griding or indexing. Again , I had to re-route some water hose and re-route the wires coming out of the back of the alternator (and I have lots of pictures).

I've talked to several people that have had no problems with their Garrett turbochargers. In fact, I've been told by several people that the Garrett is more efficient than the KKK allowing for more boost without an intercooler upgrade and the boost starts sooner. I have no other mods to my motor with the exception of Guru Stage II MAP (when it totally gets here). I even still have my cat. However, as soon as my kit arrives, I will post my numbers at 17 psi for a comparison. Good Luck ed

 

Ewainwright, where in Florida are you? I'm in Miami, which is apparently a 951-free zone. Maybe we can compare notes on our smokey, non-superior turbo's sometime.

I am planning to go back to the dyno soon, and will post results. Last time I was at 300, but my stock wastegate was leaking. With a new WG now, I'd still be very happy with 338 at 17psi.

I bought my Huntley Stage 2 turbo because some guy who answered the phone at Huntley Racing back then told me it was the way to go. He was a nice guy, very knowledgable, with sort of a low, gravelish Danny Bonaducci sounding voice. I understand he has his own shop now.

 

Myswiss
Vitesse uses a T04E for its stage 1????