Jason @ Paragon Products

Crazyracer, Chuck just told me that at this point we don't have an address or credit card # from you as you've just been exchanging emails. The link you provided still won't verify the billing address for the credit card you want to use. If you don't want to email us the information we requested, just provide us with the phone # for the issuing bank for the credit card (usually printed on the back of the card) and we will contact them to do an address verification.

Mike S

Geeze dude...go take a valium or something. Damn!! I'm not saying that all Canadians are out to rip off Americans nor am I even saying that they are more likely to do so. All I was trying to say was that anytime you have a transaction outside of your base country, you have less control over the transaction.

I am not familiar with Canadian laws/mailing issues so I really didn't have any recourse once I was ripped off. Here in the US, I would have been able to do a little more about it. That's it. Oh...and no I haven't been ripped off by anyone in the US.....yet.(*crossing fingers*)

Rich Sandor

crazyracer - Where in Canada are you from? If you're on the East Coast, trust me, go with Paragon, they are all great and you have nothing to loose. They won't rip you off or steal your cc info. I've ordered from them and they are great. I've met Skip and he is great. I've spoken with Chuck and Jason and they were both prompt in helping and shipping.

The downside was UPS. DO NOT SHIP UPS. They will charge 64$ brokerage no matter how small your order. Even $5 order = 64$ brokerage fee. Ship USPS.

If you are on the West coast or close to Vancouver, email me: rsandor@shaw.ca

por944trs

You only did yourself an injustice, Jason @ Paragon is one of the BEST!

crazyracer

I can't see that I was bashing at paragon, Chuck or Jason. They asked me to fax them my credit card statement and I just thought that this is out of line. I bought the product somewhere else as already mentioned in one of my previous posts. Had to pay 11 bucks more than they had offered but who cares.

It was the first time that somebody asked me to do that and I asked what you guys think about it.

Rich Sandor, thanks for the offer, I will contact you next time. Just 2 weeks ago I bought a product from another rennlist sponsor (no name) for 300 dollars US. I asked him to mark it with 50 dollars value, he said yes, sure no problem. It arrived marked with 400 dollars value by UPS, guess how happy I was about the taxes and UPS fees? Not the first time this happened to me. Last year another rennlist sponsor (no names again) did the same to me, I paid on a 1,600 dollars order 400 dollars in taxes and fees. This is real fun.

On another note, both Guru and Vitesse are THE BEST in this and that and all respects!

No wonder I am a bit carefull, eh.

AlexE

Asking for your credit card statement is out of line period....

There are better ways to verify and have customers and retailers happy on both end.

Oddly enough... I have purchased from paragon...... >$400 and I was not asked for my credit card statement .... which I would not have given either.

Asking for the 3 digit card number and phone number of the issuing bank is acceptable.... IMO

Overall paragon is great to deal with and would more than gladly order again.....

icat

While unusual, I don't think it's out of line. I doubt that anyone who stole my credit card, or copied the number from a receipt, would have access to my monthly statement. If I could then provide that statement to prove the card and shipping address were indeed mine, then both I and the store would be protected. Not much different than having a clerk ask to see your drivers license when charging in person. I don't get mad when they do that, I thank the clerk for verifying. Almost without exception they tell me how other customers yell at them. Unfortunately we live in a world where fraud has become common place. I applaud Paragon and others for taking the extra steps to ensure any parts ordered on my card are for my 951 only.

nine-44

I'd gladly give them my bank's #, it is to protect my hard earned dollars. They should explain why, if they did not. I would guess that they though. Get screwed once via fraud, you'll understand why they do it that way. I'd rather comply and be on the safe side than loose badly due to this. I wish more folks did it this way. Just my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

Olli Snellman

I am working for one of the major credit card companies. I can tell be happy they ask all of this information ! It's just for your protection!

crazyracer

OK, so everybody has his opinion but it's still odd. Imagine, you walk into a store and buy something and they check your drivers license and your birth certificate. Of course, it's safe but that's not why people use credit cards!!!?????

Randy_J

just too much CC fraud these days. so easy to get numbers too. they keep busting rings - mostly by accident - and discover reams of CC #'s.

no big deal on the verification - Paragon is tops in my book. I've ordered several times from them and they really try hard. just do it.

Brian McCoy

Jason already said why they asked.. to protect THEM too. It's 1 form of ID that they can use to verify you are who you say you are. I agree with the process and take similar precautions on ALL international orders I fill (eBay).

BUT, what would you have them do crazyracer? Do you have a better idea where they can protect their interest as well as the customers?

I'm sure you've figgured out that the protests for Paragon are based on customers feeling very strongly about the business. I personally haven't delt with a finer mail-order business, Ever. If you don't want to jump the 1 hoop 1 time to deal with them, that's your business and life will go on.

Olli Snellman

Because of my job i see every day these CC frauds. Belive me it's just for your own protection. Because you are not actually present with CC, it is good they check out that it is the actual CC holder who is using the CC. CC's can be copied so easily . That's happening a lot for example in Singapore, Maleysa, Poland. When you are using your card they just copy CC information and make duplicate of it. So there are great risk even when you are using CC at stores. Think about risk's you are buing something remotely.
Here in Finland even in stores they must check out your identity if the charged amount is over 50 euros

Randy_J

Olli is right on the money with that one.. few years back I'm in NYC for a few days. Bank tracks me on the cel and asks if for some reason I was in Taiwan the day before charging up US$14,000!

Just remember, we all end up paying for the CC fraud - no free lunch here - either in CC fees, high CC interest rates, merchant CC discounts, and then our mortage rates, bank SC, etc.

FYI, I ship all my stuff to a USA postal drop, and I just added that address to my CC as a secondary address.

Gary

Folks,

Living out of the US (Switzerland) and wanting to buy stuff from there can be quite frustrating, but fortunately, the companies I'm ordering from are very good about this (don't remember that I've ever ordered from Paragon but I know I've talked to them over the last few years - I'm sure they're great).

I've never been asked for my statement or proof of anything; however, fraud must be prevented for the benefit of both parties. The "online transaction" community use those "other" little ID numbers on the card to help, which appears to work (otherwise they'd change to something else, right?).

Just for everyone's appreciation (you may not care, but at least you'll know!), here are some items that must be considered by international puchasers over and above US residents:

Much higher shipping (based on weight)
Local taxes on delivery (depends on country)
Unable to ship some items out of US (e.g. some liquids)
Only US credit cards sometimes accepted even if delivery in US (K-Mart, Sears come to mind, never happened with a Porsche parts dealer)
Timezone for contact by phone (either purchase or support)
Many people only ship to US (Ebay auctions) despite my abilty to use paypal (so I can't bid)
Language can also be an issue for some (worse for me since I'm English )

I cannot solve every issue above but some of my solutions are:

Know what I want in "exact" terms before any contact takes place (no confusion, time wasted if phoning necessary)
Do as much as I can via email (phone charges, timezone)
For the shipping, I get brake discs locally (!) and try to stick to USPS rather than UPS or DHL or whatever (someone else mentioned this)
Many suppliers on this board will, on request, mark down the goods declaration price on the packet to US$20 or something (little or no tax) - no harm in asking, right

Note that I'm not complaining here, I work around it somehow and build/maintain supplier relationships that make it a little easier for me (basically, those that understand the above). It's just not picking up a freephone number, ordering and getting free delivery the following day from coast to coast for us outsiders

Regards,

Gary.

PS The best e-business model I can quote is Amazon - truly an effecient and global model tailored for everyones needs.