Drove a 981 Cayman and Cayman S...
06-18-2013 | 09:52 PM
#31
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I respect that, it takes a real man to admit your driving limitations publicy.
06-19-2013 | 12:32 PM
#32
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These new cars are flat out phenomenal in terms of handling and stopping. It really is cheating compared to a 951. We're lucky to have an antiquated abs if that. They have so many gizmos that drive the car for you, they're way easier than our cars to drive on the limit. Having said that, a Cayman will possibly have a slightly narrower window once you move right up close to that edge in terms of a short wheelbase mid-engine car. Having driven many different models of the current Porsche lineup (inc 991) I can say that these are a very good representation of what today's technology can bring to the table.
Do I want one over a well sorted 951....nope. After all the bells and whistles...they're a bit antiseptic for me.
Do I want one over a well sorted 951....nope. After all the bells and whistles...they're a bit antiseptic for me.
You really almost can't compare the two - the 981 (hell even the 987/986) are literally decades newer, with newer suspension designs, newer electronics, etc. They are substantially easier to drive at 9/10ths and to get to 9/10ths.
My 951 is fairly healthy, and runs a LOT better than a mostly stock 951, and it's still a LOT of work to keep up with the newer cars. Hell the steering ratio ALONE makes a difference - I am doing a lot more cockpit karate inside my car to get it through a slalom than the guys in the Boxsters (who barely have to tilt their wheels off center to turn, vs. me having to get damn near half a rotation). Then of course the lack of ABS, slower throttle response, etc.
06-19-2013 | 06:39 PM
#33
Late Porkchops
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Did this a few weeks ago, been meaning to post about it...
Got an invite to attend a local Porsche dealer's "unveiling" of the new 981 Cayman and Cayman S. They set up a little autocross course, run by Porsche Sport Driving School instructors, and we got to take a couple laps in each car. Not really quite in the market, though the wife keeps nagging that she wants a Porsche of her own so it wasn't a complete waste of the dealership's time.
Really NEAT cars. They LOOK fantastic. Feel good. Interior as you would expect for a modern German car. The "cooled" seats rocked. Power was good, handling very direct. Both cars were PDK with Sports Chrono.
Surprisingly, I found that I preferred the base Cayman over the S. A little less power but it felt smoother and more progressive. It felt a little more willing to rev even though the torque curve wasn't as fat. Both were fun to drive.
The Cayman is no doubt faster around an AX course than my 951 is. Turn in is much sharper, it takes a lot less input on the wheel. It's more comfortable. The gadgets and bells/whistles are much nicer. Heated/cooled seats, Navi, etc. But in direct comparison, it felt kinda numb. All of that subtle feedback I get through the steering wheel in my 951 wasn't there. In fact the driving instructor commented that I didn't need to "work" the wheel so much. Honestly I was trying to "feel" for grip and couldn't feel it. When the front end would start to "let go" the PSM would just kick in... as in, "Hey it kinda feels like it might be starting to pus- oh there's the PSM. I guess it IS pushing." You're basically expected to point the wheel, hold it, and let the PSM sort it all out. Even something as small as the throttle pedal... it's on a much softer spring (it's drive by wire so that's expected) whereas the 951 takes a wee bit more effort to push down.
Still though, after driving the base 981, I was doing the mental math in my head... "Well if I move some money from here to there, and pull this from that, I can probably put together a down payment to get the monthly where I want... a new 981 sure would look sweet in the garage next to the 951...." all the while the wife is chatting up the sales guys asking about colors and options and "what do you have in inventory?" LOL. Though something still wasn't quite sitting right in my head with it.
Then I hopped back in my 951 to leave the event. And it hit me - I still prefer my 951! The 951 requires more involvement but there is also a lot more tactile-ness (?) that really was lost on the Cayman.
I was surprised at how happy I was to hop back into the 951. The old cars really have something that the newer cars don't. I think I'd do a Cayman (or, really more likely a Boxster) as a nice DD but keep the 951 as the toy. It really was comfortable and no doubt fun but when it comes time to push it, the 951 is more involved and entertaining. Or even better (shoot me!)... I drove a Cayenne Diesel they had on hand around the neighborhood and LOVED it. If I were standing at a Porsche dealership with $70k in hand, and could keep my 951... I'd buy a new Cayenne Diesel before I bought a Boxster/Cayman/911.
Anyways... thought I'd share.
Got an invite to attend a local Porsche dealer's "unveiling" of the new 981 Cayman and Cayman S. They set up a little autocross course, run by Porsche Sport Driving School instructors, and we got to take a couple laps in each car. Not really quite in the market, though the wife keeps nagging that she wants a Porsche of her own so it wasn't a complete waste of the dealership's time.
Really NEAT cars. They LOOK fantastic. Feel good. Interior as you would expect for a modern German car. The "cooled" seats rocked. Power was good, handling very direct. Both cars were PDK with Sports Chrono.
Surprisingly, I found that I preferred the base Cayman over the S. A little less power but it felt smoother and more progressive. It felt a little more willing to rev even though the torque curve wasn't as fat. Both were fun to drive.
The Cayman is no doubt faster around an AX course than my 951 is. Turn in is much sharper, it takes a lot less input on the wheel. It's more comfortable. The gadgets and bells/whistles are much nicer. Heated/cooled seats, Navi, etc. But in direct comparison, it felt kinda numb. All of that subtle feedback I get through the steering wheel in my 951 wasn't there. In fact the driving instructor commented that I didn't need to "work" the wheel so much. Honestly I was trying to "feel" for grip and couldn't feel it. When the front end would start to "let go" the PSM would just kick in... as in, "Hey it kinda feels like it might be starting to pus- oh there's the PSM. I guess it IS pushing." You're basically expected to point the wheel, hold it, and let the PSM sort it all out. Even something as small as the throttle pedal... it's on a much softer spring (it's drive by wire so that's expected) whereas the 951 takes a wee bit more effort to push down.
Still though, after driving the base 981, I was doing the mental math in my head... "Well if I move some money from here to there, and pull this from that, I can probably put together a down payment to get the monthly where I want... a new 981 sure would look sweet in the garage next to the 951...." all the while the wife is chatting up the sales guys asking about colors and options and "what do you have in inventory?" LOL. Though something still wasn't quite sitting right in my head with it.
Then I hopped back in my 951 to leave the event. And it hit me - I still prefer my 951! The 951 requires more involvement but there is also a lot more tactile-ness (?) that really was lost on the Cayman.
I was surprised at how happy I was to hop back into the 951. The old cars really have something that the newer cars don't. I think I'd do a Cayman (or, really more likely a Boxster) as a nice DD but keep the 951 as the toy. It really was comfortable and no doubt fun but when it comes time to push it, the 951 is more involved and entertaining. Or even better (shoot me!)... I drove a Cayenne Diesel they had on hand around the neighborhood and LOVED it. If I were standing at a Porsche dealership with $70k in hand, and could keep my 951... I'd buy a new Cayenne Diesel before I bought a Boxster/Cayman/911.
Anyways... thought I'd share.
I was in this same boat. I looked at some used Caymans but it wasnt for me.
The local dealer invited us to an " Event Night " at the dealership. This was the launch of the new Cayman and S. I couldnt wait . I was thinking of selling my 951, swapping some stocks for cash , and then a moderate payment. Heck I was even thinking of a trip to Germany .
My bud and I showed up for the launch. We had to be 2 of the 3 or 4 car heads there. It was a of nice dealer party with charity , art sales, some other entertainment, etc , But not for me so much. It was more a metrosexual meeting . I knew I had to leave when the PCA guy got up talking about the " Porsche lifestyle ". Hell I thought we might get to hear that car fire, or see one on a lift. No such luck. Somehow even though I liked the car I was shaking my head . Plus the dealer "deal " wasnt . The Cayman interior is tops though.
I still had the Cayman in mind but I looked at a 996 Turbo but didnt do that. A month or so later, with me still grinding on this , I went to the Ford dealer looking at a new Powerstroke . There was a Boss 302 there. I looked in it and at it. The next week or so I was back the dealer to look at a truck they had coming in. The Go Daddy Danica Green Boss was still there . I said " Why havent you sold that Boss." They said " We are waiting for you to buy it." I said " Make me a DEAL I cant refuse." They did. They gave me the keys to a nice GT and said to keep it for a night . After about a 15 minute test drive I was back at the dealer and told them to box up the BOSS.
And as much I liked the Cayman, I can say that this Boss 302 is a FUN car. It brings me full circle as I had a 1970 Mach 1 in Green back in the 1970s. I will probably pair it with a 3.2 Carrera, or just keep my pristine 951 that I put big $$ into back in 2010 to refresh it, and have a great car stable and no real payments -- except on the truck that I have not bought yet.
06-19-2013 | 07:15 PM
#34
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I was in this same boat. I looked at some used Caymans but it wasnt for me.
The local dealer invited us to an " Event Night " at the dealership. This was the launch of the new Cayman and S. I couldnt wait . I was thinking of selling my 951, swapping some stocks for cash , and then a moderate payment. Heck I was even thinking of a trip to Germany .
My bud and I showed up for the launch. We had to be 2 of the 3 or 4 car heads there. It was a of nice dealer party with charity , art sales, some other entertainment, etc , But not for me so much. It was more a metrosexual meeting . I knew I had to leave when the PCA guy got up talking about the " Porsche lifestyle ". Hell I thought we might get to hear that car fire, or see one on a lift. No such luck. Somehow even though I liked the car I was shaking my head . Plus the dealer "deal " wasnt . The Cayman interior is tops though.
I still had the Cayman in mind but I looked at a 996 Turbo but didnt do that. A month or so later, with me still grinding on this , I went to the Ford dealer looking at a new Powerstroke . There was a Boss 302 there. I looked in it and at it. The next week or so I was back the dealer to look at a truck they had coming in. The Go Daddy Danica Green Boss was still there . I said " Why havent you sold that Boss." They said " We are waiting for you to buy it." I said " Make me a DEAL I cant refuse." They did. They gave me the keys to a nice GT and said to keep it for a night . After about a 15 minute test drive I was back at the dealer and told them to box up the BOSS.
And as much I liked the Cayman, I can say that this Boss 302 is a FUN car. It brings me full circle as I had a 1970 Mach 1 in Green back in the 1970s. I will probably pair it with a 3.2 Carrera, or just keep my pristine 951 that I put big $$ into back in 2010 to refresh it, and have a great car stable and no real payments -- except on the truck that I have not bought yet.
The local dealer invited us to an " Event Night " at the dealership. This was the launch of the new Cayman and S. I couldnt wait . I was thinking of selling my 951, swapping some stocks for cash , and then a moderate payment. Heck I was even thinking of a trip to Germany .
My bud and I showed up for the launch. We had to be 2 of the 3 or 4 car heads there. It was a of nice dealer party with charity , art sales, some other entertainment, etc , But not for me so much. It was more a metrosexual meeting . I knew I had to leave when the PCA guy got up talking about the " Porsche lifestyle ". Hell I thought we might get to hear that car fire, or see one on a lift. No such luck. Somehow even though I liked the car I was shaking my head . Plus the dealer "deal " wasnt . The Cayman interior is tops though.
I still had the Cayman in mind but I looked at a 996 Turbo but didnt do that. A month or so later, with me still grinding on this , I went to the Ford dealer looking at a new Powerstroke . There was a Boss 302 there. I looked in it and at it. The next week or so I was back the dealer to look at a truck they had coming in. The Go Daddy Danica Green Boss was still there . I said " Why havent you sold that Boss." They said " We are waiting for you to buy it." I said " Make me a DEAL I cant refuse." They did. They gave me the keys to a nice GT and said to keep it for a night . After about a 15 minute test drive I was back at the dealer and told them to box up the BOSS.
And as much I liked the Cayman, I can say that this Boss 302 is a FUN car. It brings me full circle as I had a 1970 Mach 1 in Green back in the 1970s. I will probably pair it with a 3.2 Carrera, or just keep my pristine 951 that I put big $$ into back in 2010 to refresh it, and have a great car stable and no real payments -- except on the truck that I have not bought yet.
Some dealer events are certainly more like you describe (metrosexual meeting? LOL...) I was pretty surprised that the event I went to was much more about the performance of the car. It was put on by one of the local dealers that traditionally isn't much into the local racing/performance scene, too (vs. like, say, Napleton, which has- er, had- a full racing program).
06-19-2013 | 07:15 PM
#35
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PS nice choice on the BOSS. I'm not really a Mustang guy but I have not heard a single bad thing about them, from a lot of other folks I know that also are not traditionally Mustang guys. It must be a pretty spectacular car.
06-19-2013 | 07:54 PM
#36
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From: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
I'd think they'd be close.
but turbocharging a Cayman is living dangerously.
the 944T.... wait. nevermind.
not really. they both handle like tuned supercars because as far as handling is concerned, that's what they are.
but turbocharging a Cayman is living dangerously.
the 944T.... wait. nevermind.
not really. they both handle like tuned supercars because as far as handling is concerned, that's what they are.
06-19-2013 | 08:11 PM
#37
Late Porkchops
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I know I should not have let the attendees bother me, but somehow it did. I even posted it here on RL after the party . Seems to me most of us here are similar. But this wasnt at all. Maybe I was looking at too " young" a car for my 55 years.
At some point I waded up to the bar and they said what are you having? I said how about a couple of beers . They said We dont have beer ,, it is a "nicer" function. Hmmm ok . How about a Martini . You know they have a long history with Porsche right . No bite on that either. I just got a coke at McDs on the way home.
But seriously there was not any gearheads there . It surprised me . There were a lot a scantiy clad fat chciks . And at least a couple of cougars . LOL. One asked as we waited to sit in car " Would you buy me one ?" I said " Well, lets see what we can work out . " Or I can call my RL buddy Odurandina . Which was my only fun moment other than talking with my salesman and the parts guy at the dealership who I know well. I know I am an old school guy and racer, but this was a bit hard to stomach even for my younger bud who went along .
I am sure that some of the Porsche technical problems crept in my head too for a $90K plus purchase . But I could see being asked what you driving, and then the guys saying " Oh, one of those guys ." It was like that some in the later 1980s too. What's the difference between a Porcupine and a Porsche? With a Porcupine, the ***** is on the outside. LOL.
And the Cayman still doesnt qualify as a "real Porsche." LOL. That really doesnt bother me at ALL. I have heard this for years . I have yet to own a 911, but as I say, if I do it will be either a 3.2, a 3.3 Turbo, or my ultimate, which costs more than a new Cayman , a 1994 Turbo Carrera in Pearlessence . I would probably be in the metro group for sure then LOL LOL.
In any event, it does reinforce how good our 951s are though now 28 years on.
One other thing that happens is EVERYTIME I drive the 951 some Honda Civic or the like wants to race .
I was driving the Boss home from the same buddies house as above, when I stopped at a light and sure enough a Honda or Toyota with a oil can muffler pulls up beside me and honks and wants to run. I had the window down and said " It is brand new." He says " How much you got ?" I said ( I lied ) " About 650 . " He just smiled and waved as we drove away with no romp. So one good thing has happened LOL. I dont have to put up with that crap .
At some point I waded up to the bar and they said what are you having? I said how about a couple of beers . They said We dont have beer ,, it is a "nicer" function. Hmmm ok . How about a Martini . You know they have a long history with Porsche right . No bite on that either. I just got a coke at McDs on the way home.
But seriously there was not any gearheads there . It surprised me . There were a lot a scantiy clad fat chciks . And at least a couple of cougars . LOL. One asked as we waited to sit in car " Would you buy me one ?" I said " Well, lets see what we can work out . " Or I can call my RL buddy Odurandina .
Which was my only fun moment other than talking with my salesman and the parts guy at the dealership who I know well. I know I am an old school guy and racer, but this was a bit hard to stomach even for my younger bud who went along .I am sure that some of the Porsche technical problems crept in my head too for a $90K plus purchase . But I could see being asked what you driving, and then the guys saying " Oh, one of those guys ." It was like that some in the later 1980s too. What's the difference between a Porcupine and a Porsche? With a Porcupine, the ***** is on the outside. LOL.
And the Cayman still doesnt qualify as a "real Porsche." LOL. That really doesnt bother me at ALL. I have heard this for years . I have yet to own a 911, but as I say, if I do it will be either a 3.2, a 3.3 Turbo, or my ultimate, which costs more than a new Cayman , a 1994 Turbo Carrera in Pearlessence . I would probably be in the metro group for sure then LOL LOL.
In any event, it does reinforce how good our 951s are though now 28 years on.
One other thing that happens is EVERYTIME I drive the 951 some Honda Civic or the like wants to race .
I was driving the Boss home from the same buddies house as above, when I stopped at a light and sure enough a Honda or Toyota with a oil can muffler pulls up beside me and honks and wants to run. I had the window down and said " It is brand new." He says " How much you got ?" I said ( I lied ) " About 650 . " He just smiled and waved as we drove away with no romp. So one good thing has happened LOL. I dont have to put up with that crap .
06-19-2013 | 08:25 PM
#38
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From: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Elkhart Lake, WI has that Porsche lifestyle thing going on when the PCA comes to town.
great dining and car conversation. nicest people you'll ever meet.
dealerships are a bit too sterile. for some reason I can imagine a lot of douches being there.
great dining and car conversation. nicest people you'll ever meet.
dealerships are a bit too sterile. for some reason I can imagine a lot of douches being there.
06-19-2013 | 08:29 PM
#39
Late Porkchops
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When I talked to the local independent Porsche shop that is what he wanted me to do. Beat the dealer down on a 2010 Cayman, then bring it in for a refresh by him complete with installing a turbo. He said that is waht the set up is now.
06-19-2013 | 08:48 PM
#40
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Difference between that and the dealership experience Texas had is that probably 50% of the people at the Elkhart Lake dinner are 944 owners there for the club race!
06-19-2013 | 08:56 PM
#41
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My buddy has a 2012 Cayman R. Stock.
He was seeing 140+ (and lifting out of fear) into T12 at Road America (which is at the end of a long straight).
By comparison I was seeing low 130s. His car is 100% stock. Mine at the time was a stock 26/6 at 14psi with M-Tune and 3" exhaust. I was running faster lap times than he was (I'm a faster driver) so I bet me in his car would be even quicker at the end of the straights.
06-19-2013 | 09:11 PM
#42
Late Porkchops
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I had never seen anything like this, and I have been around. About everywhere in US and over 50 countries. I havent even seen this back in the LA days . Of course I was more in Ventura and Bakersfield .
06-19-2013 | 09:13 PM
#43
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06-19-2013 | 09:24 PM
#44
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I'm not so sure of that either.
My buddy has a 2012 Cayman R. Stock.
He was seeing 140+ (and lifting out of fear) into T12 at Road America (which is at the end of a long straight).
By comparison I was seeing low 130s. His car is 100% stock. Mine at the time was a stock 26/6 at 14psi with M-Tune and 3" exhaust. I was running faster lap times than he was (I'm a faster driver) so I bet me in his car would be even quicker at the end of the straights.
My buddy has a 2012 Cayman R. Stock.
He was seeing 140+ (and lifting out of fear) into T12 at Road America (which is at the end of a long straight).
By comparison I was seeing low 130s. His car is 100% stock. Mine at the time was a stock 26/6 at 14psi with M-Tune and 3" exhaust. I was running faster lap times than he was (I'm a faster driver) so I bet me in his car would be even quicker at the end of the straights.
06-19-2013 | 11:13 PM
#45
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From: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
3 968s and like 11 944s at Road America last month.
hearing 944Ts near the limiter was sweet. unfortunately, one grenaded.
a guy also crashed his silver 993.