Tech: The 944 / 951 Ignition System.
#46
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#48
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#49
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Josh;
Thanks for this very thoughtful information.
I was coincidentally just recently wondering about spark energy and how it all works with regards to our stock ignition systems, and was researching and trying to compile info. And here you come with this!!
I would definitely be interested in a more efficient lighting off of the air/fuel mixture (at higher RPM). But, the thing is that maybe the stock 81mJ of energy might actually be enough to do the job? (with all good, fresh components, of course). If, in fact, more is better, then maybe an ignition timing change would be in order?
Thanks for this very thoughtful information.
I was coincidentally just recently wondering about spark energy and how it all works with regards to our stock ignition systems, and was researching and trying to compile info. And here you come with this!!
I would definitely be interested in a more efficient lighting off of the air/fuel mixture (at higher RPM). But, the thing is that maybe the stock 81mJ of energy might actually be enough to do the job? (with all good, fresh components, of course). If, in fact, more is better, then maybe an ignition timing change would be in order?
#50
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Josh;
Thanks for this very thoughtful information.
I was coincidentally just recently wondering about spark energy and how it all works with regards to our stock ignition systems, and was researching and trying to compile info. And here you come with this!!
I would definitely be interested in a more efficient lighting off of the air/fuel mixture (at higher RPM). But, the thing is that maybe the stock 81mJ of energy might actually be enough to do the job? (with all good, fresh components, of course). If, in fact, more is better, then maybe an ignition timing change would be in order?
Thanks for this very thoughtful information.
I was coincidentally just recently wondering about spark energy and how it all works with regards to our stock ignition systems, and was researching and trying to compile info. And here you come with this!!
I would definitely be interested in a more efficient lighting off of the air/fuel mixture (at higher RPM). But, the thing is that maybe the stock 81mJ of energy might actually be enough to do the job? (with all good, fresh components, of course). If, in fact, more is better, then maybe an ignition timing change would be in order?
With a more powerful ignition, this should improve the flame-front. Faster combustion means we hit peak cylinder pressure earlier, which means that less ignition advance is needed. This results in a power increase since we are resisting the pistons upward movement less.
#52
As always, above and beyond...
As I've said before, I fell very fortunate to be involved (in a limited capacity) and witness to what goes on in your office. Funny though, most times, you're speaking greek to me and showing me with your test equiptment.
In the end... Like the infamous Ricky Bobby.... I just wanna go fast.
Thanks!!
As I've said before, I fell very fortunate to be involved (in a limited capacity) and witness to what goes on in your office. Funny though, most times, you're speaking greek to me and showing me with your test equiptment.
In the end... Like the infamous Ricky Bobby.... I just wanna go fast.
Thanks!!
#54
Ditto! Great stuff Joshua!
I already have the Rogue Tuner... maybe I'll think about picking up a better coil.
Based on actual conversations I've had with some of the other vendors - I'm pretty sure at least one of them doesn't understand things down to this level. PS - Reno I owe you a phone call.
I already have the Rogue Tuner... maybe I'll think about picking up a better coil.
Too bad other vendors do not do this
#56
I personally expect vendors to understand this stuff down to this level to be truly worthy of the respect that some of them get. At least then you know that the advice they give comes from a true fundamental understanding of what's going on.
#57
Is there a way to calculate the best size of the coil? E.g. My coils (LS1 Style) has 185.6mJ energy and a spark duration of 1.2mS. Would there be any noticeable difference if changed to a coil with 250mJ and 2mS spark duration?
EDIT: Thank you for sharing. It is a pleasure to see a vendor with an engineers attitude, and that take great care and pride in doing research. Sometimes it seems to me that "tuners" don't even know the basic physical laws
EDIT: Thank you for sharing. It is a pleasure to see a vendor with an engineers attitude, and that take great care and pride in doing research. Sometimes it seems to me that "tuners" don't even know the basic physical laws
#58
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Hey Josh, great thread, thanks for starting it.
FWIW, Back in '96, I added an MSD 6AL and Blaster coil to my Powerhaus 944T, car made 325/335 @ 15psi back then: good power for a 2.5l on pump gas. I noticed nothing by adding the MSD setup to my car & routinely took it to 7k during a variety of applications: strip, track, street, dyno, etc.
Later that year I was at SEMA & Crane Cams had their new CDI Combo the HI-6 and 91 & 92-series coils: 92 being the higher output. They had a display that showed a standard GM HEI igntion system lighting a spark plug, then a complete MSD6AL & Blaster setup lighting an adjacent spark plug, and finally their system lighting the last spark plug: wow. What a huge visual difference. The MSD's spark had about 2x the brightness of the HEI, and the Crane had about 2-4x the brightness over the MSD.
I bought a set & installed it & ran it for years...getting popped by it once; had to sit the rest of the afternoon out. I was running Nology wires at the time: I know I know, but I sold them through my retail store at the time so I had to support my product. Loved the ignition setup though.
Crane states 1200mj, 450v, and 7amps drawn at 10krpm. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cr...6445/overview/
I saved a setup like this & will be running it on my boat...with an Mtune of course
FWIW, Back in '96, I added an MSD 6AL and Blaster coil to my Powerhaus 944T, car made 325/335 @ 15psi back then: good power for a 2.5l on pump gas. I noticed nothing by adding the MSD setup to my car & routinely took it to 7k during a variety of applications: strip, track, street, dyno, etc.
Later that year I was at SEMA & Crane Cams had their new CDI Combo the HI-6 and 91 & 92-series coils: 92 being the higher output. They had a display that showed a standard GM HEI igntion system lighting a spark plug, then a complete MSD6AL & Blaster setup lighting an adjacent spark plug, and finally their system lighting the last spark plug: wow. What a huge visual difference. The MSD's spark had about 2x the brightness of the HEI, and the Crane had about 2-4x the brightness over the MSD.
I bought a set & installed it & ran it for years...getting popped by it once; had to sit the rest of the afternoon out. I was running Nology wires at the time: I know I know, but I sold them through my retail store at the time so I had to support my product. Loved the ignition setup though.
Crane states 1200mj, 450v, and 7amps drawn at 10krpm. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cr...6445/overview/
I saved a setup like this & will be running it on my boat...with an Mtune of course
#59
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Hey Josh, great thread, thanks for starting it.
FWIW, Back in '96, I added an MSD 6AL and Blaster coil to my Powerhaus 944T, car made 325/335 @ 15psi back then: good power for a 2.5l on pump gas. I noticed nothing by adding the MSD setup to my car & routinely took it to 7k during a variety of applications: strip, track, street, dyno, etc.
Later that year I was at SEMA & Crane Cams had their new CDI Combo the HI-6 and 91 & 92-series coils: 92 being the higher output. They had a display that showed a standard GM HEI igntion system lighting a spark plug, then a complete MSD6AL & Blaster setup lighting an adjacent spark plug, and finally their system lighting the last spark plug: wow. What a huge visual difference. The MSD's spark had about 2x the brightness of the HEI, and the Crane had about 2-4x the brightness over the MSD.
I bought a set & installed it & ran it for years...getting popped by it once; had to sit the rest of the afternoon out. I was running Nology wires at the time: I know I know, but I sold them through my retail store at the time so I had to support my product. Loved the ignition setup though.
Crane states 1200mj, 450v, and 7amps drawn at 10krpm. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cr...6445/overview/
I saved a setup like this & will be running it on my boat...with an Mtune of course
FWIW, Back in '96, I added an MSD 6AL and Blaster coil to my Powerhaus 944T, car made 325/335 @ 15psi back then: good power for a 2.5l on pump gas. I noticed nothing by adding the MSD setup to my car & routinely took it to 7k during a variety of applications: strip, track, street, dyno, etc.
Later that year I was at SEMA & Crane Cams had their new CDI Combo the HI-6 and 91 & 92-series coils: 92 being the higher output. They had a display that showed a standard GM HEI igntion system lighting a spark plug, then a complete MSD6AL & Blaster setup lighting an adjacent spark plug, and finally their system lighting the last spark plug: wow. What a huge visual difference. The MSD's spark had about 2x the brightness of the HEI, and the Crane had about 2-4x the brightness over the MSD.
I bought a set & installed it & ran it for years...getting popped by it once; had to sit the rest of the afternoon out. I was running Nology wires at the time: I know I know, but I sold them through my retail store at the time so I had to support my product. Loved the ignition setup though.
Crane states 1200mj, 450v, and 7amps drawn at 10krpm. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cr...6445/overview/
I saved a setup like this & will be running it on my boat...with an Mtune of course
#60
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Is there a way to calculate the best size of the coil? E.g. My coils (LS1 Style) has 185.6mJ energy and a spark duration of 1.2mS. Would there be any noticeable difference if changed to a coil with 250mJ and 2mS spark duration?
EDIT: Thank you for sharing. It is a pleasure to see a vendor with an engineers attitude, and that take great care and pride in doing research. Sometimes it seems to me that "tuners" don't even know the basic physical laws
EDIT: Thank you for sharing. It is a pleasure to see a vendor with an engineers attitude, and that take great care and pride in doing research. Sometimes it seems to me that "tuners" don't even know the basic physical laws
Now, calculating the best/better coil option given coil charge time, and inductance lets me/us calculate what should be the best option, given the constraints.
Hey Josh, great thread, thanks for starting it.
FWIW, Back in '96, I added an MSD 6AL and Blaster coil to my Powerhaus 944T, car made 325/335 @ 15psi back then: good power for a 2.5l on pump gas. I noticed nothing by adding the MSD setup to my car & routinely took it to 7k during a variety of applications: strip, track, street, dyno, etc.
Later that year I was at SEMA & Crane Cams had their new CDI Combo the HI-6 and 91 & 92-series coils: 92 being the higher output. They had a display that showed a standard GM HEI igntion system lighting a spark plug, then a complete MSD6AL & Blaster setup lighting an adjacent spark plug, and finally their system lighting the last spark plug: wow. What a huge visual difference. The MSD's spark had about 2x the brightness of the HEI, and the Crane had about 2-4x the brightness over the MSD.
I bought a set & installed it & ran it for years...getting popped by it once; had to sit the rest of the afternoon out. I was running Nology wires at the time: I know I know, but I sold them through my retail store at the time so I had to support my product. Loved the ignition setup though.
Crane states 1200mj, 450v, and 7amps drawn at 10krpm. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cr...6445/overview/
I saved a setup like this & will be running it on my boat...with an Mtune of course
FWIW, Back in '96, I added an MSD 6AL and Blaster coil to my Powerhaus 944T, car made 325/335 @ 15psi back then: good power for a 2.5l on pump gas. I noticed nothing by adding the MSD setup to my car & routinely took it to 7k during a variety of applications: strip, track, street, dyno, etc.
Later that year I was at SEMA & Crane Cams had their new CDI Combo the HI-6 and 91 & 92-series coils: 92 being the higher output. They had a display that showed a standard GM HEI igntion system lighting a spark plug, then a complete MSD6AL & Blaster setup lighting an adjacent spark plug, and finally their system lighting the last spark plug: wow. What a huge visual difference. The MSD's spark had about 2x the brightness of the HEI, and the Crane had about 2-4x the brightness over the MSD.
I bought a set & installed it & ran it for years...getting popped by it once; had to sit the rest of the afternoon out. I was running Nology wires at the time: I know I know, but I sold them through my retail store at the time so I had to support my product. Loved the ignition setup though.
Crane states 1200mj, 450v, and 7amps drawn at 10krpm. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cr...6445/overview/
I saved a setup like this & will be running it on my boat...with an Mtune of course