I've always had an interest in owning an air cooled 911. So when I found a '87 Carerra coupe on C/L - 2 miles from my house, I figured, why not go drive it ?

Well, I was underwhelmed to say the least. Even though the car rode on fresh koni adjustables, and had a fresh top end, it felt slow and wallowed around. The engine sound was nice, but not enough to make up for the weird driving dynamics, lack of power, manual clutch and steering, etc.

I guess I'm just spoiled by my (heavily modified) 951.

Every time I think about selling it, the car I go drive is a disappointment.

What is wrong with me ??

 

You are comparing apples to bananas.

You have a turbo charged (modified) water cooled, front engine, rear drive car, and are comparing it to a air cooled normally aspirated, rear engine, rear drive car. There is no comparison, not a fair one anyway.

The closest air cooled car of the era you would find would be a 930, find one that has been modified and the comparison would become even better (more fair).. and even then you are likely to be underwhelmed. But at least the HP and power to weight ratio would be much closer to what you are used to.

An 89 and after will have a transaxle more like the one you are accustomed to (synchro type).. but any of them will be close to the power levels approaching something you are more familliar with.

You like your 951, and are not likely to find an easy replacement for it, a 911 of any era or setup is just a very different car.

 

I originally went looking for a 83 911SC, drove a couple and know what you mean about the drive. To be fair i only drove them for a few km.

Last summer a friend and i swaped my 951 for his 997 for a couple days. The car was fun and fast but I was looking forward to getting my car back.

One day I hope to find a 911 but it is definatly a different car than the 951.

 

I second the 930 opinion.

I have the opposite feeling. Whenever I drive my father's modified 930, I feel depressed going back to my 951. More power, faster spool...the constant fireballs and the backfiring...the perfect symphony playing with a flat six beat in the background.

I work on porsche mercedes and bmws for a living and get to drive (not beat on) all of them on a daily basis, and nothing feels anything close to the unique feeling of a 951

 

I drove a few SC's and wasn't impressed. The car is still very much a 1960's car and it looks, feels and drives like it. The 964's are a better comparison, but the 911 doesn't really begin to feel and drive like a more modern car until the 993 generation.

 

I am happy to offer a counterpoint. Standard Euro 87 911 vs std 944 Turbo S and there is nothing in it - I have had that drag race on the track. Over 100mph I would back the 944T, but not elsewhere. The 944T certainly feels "gruntier" because they make shedloads of mid range tq compared to a 911 but the 3.2 has a better top end and better throttle response/no lag.

If you compare modified cars to modified cars its a different ball game. My 911 track car (below) weighs about 200kg less than my 944T but has about 60hp less (say 260hp vs 320hp) and a lot less tq. The weight difference, the weight bias getting out of corners and the almost instant throttle response make it pretty much as quick as the 944T. Above 100mph it would loose but in many other circs it would win.

Standard 911s and 944Ts are each great cars and modified are even better. Different, but both great and each one complements the other

 

timely thread...
When i went from my 951 to a 968 i felt like i lost alot in terms of power, handling and comfort. now that ive kept the 968 for 2 years i realized it needed a few things to make it my own and that before and after driving comparisons are difficult to keep objective...

recently though, ive gotten the bug(again) to switch to a different p-car... the possibilities, as i saw them were a 3.2, 964, another modified 951, put a 951 drivetrain in my 968, an early 997 (they're just now getting around 30k, maybe a another year or so and it'll be within reach!)or if i could find one that needed work, a 993.

i see a few problems with some of these choices though: Im very used to the way my 968 handles. I would basically have to relearn driving technique and reactions. this of course makes it difficult to switch to a rear engined platform. The other is power. With a chip, my 968 makes about the same power and weighs the same as a 964... so why switch? of course it makes about 20 more than a 3.2 but weighs a little more... The way its setup now, its pushing the power of an early 993... Im not even taking into account the fact that my car weighs around 150lbs less than stock and retains AC, power steering, etc...

But then again logic has nothing to do with it in the first place... i still feel the call. maybe i'll get a 911 and then hate it and switch back. But then my illogical side will be happy that i had a 911 once, tried it, and went back to what floats my boat.

sorry for the long post, just musing!
these are great impressions, try to keep them coming!

 

great timing again! this is the only scenario that i can think of where id have the best of both worlds... you've got your melodious NA flat six in a light platform and then the relatively modern Porsche turbo without the costs associated with the 930...

That'll be a good conversation with the wife

 

This...you should have both.....

 

Having owned a 911 and now a 930 as well as a couple of 951s, it's impossible to compare the two platforms.

Out of the box, handling wise, the 951 is a winner. Much easier and more predictable on the race track. Much more forgiving than the 911 platform, especially the 930.

Performance wise the NA is more of a momentum car than a HP car. On the track, it requires 500% concentration, but once you learn how to drive it, it rewards you. The 951 will go faster and will not hurt you as bad if you make a mistake.

The 930 is brute, even in stock form. It's a OFF/ON power delivery. When you pull the trigger, you better be pointing straight. The rush and the "raw" feel cannot be compared to anything else. It's noisy, not very comfortable but you are very connected.

I owned the 930 for over 15 years, it has been rock solid reliable and inexpensive to operate. I kept it bone stock and it does have low miles.
I also owned one of my 951S for over 15 years, it's more fun to drive especially when modified.
The 951 is much easier to modify as you already have EFI. The CIS on the 930 is a handicap, but you can always convert to EFI and open the door for more mods.

The cost of modifications on the 930 is about 3-4x the cost of modifying a 951 up to 450-500hp. Once you go over this figure, things gets very expensive across the board. I'm building a spare 930 engine. So far, just in parts, I stopped counting once I crossed the $10K mark. Still not done collecting parts.

As far as bang for the $, the 951 is a winner especially if you do your own work. A 951 core engine is $1000. A 930 core engine is $3500-5000. A well cared for 930 will hold its value much better than a 951.

Having one of each gives you the best of both worlds. I'm hoping the newer water cooled TT will combine the good characteristics of the two older ones.

 

... stopped caring when you decided to go joy ride some one else's car that they were trying to sell and you had no intention of buying. Makes some friends instead of being a tire-kicker.

 

seems pretty straightforward to me... thought about changing things up with a 911, was dissappointed in the car and didn't buy it... nothing wrong with that...

 

I made it very clear in the first sentence that I was considering buying an air cooled 911.
I asked the owner to ride with me on the test drive.
We parted as friends, so I guess I now have one more friend than you do.

 

absolutely nothing....