OT...I'm a terrorist!!!
01-11-2003, 04:41 PM
#16
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Kit_Chris:
<strong>BigPorscheGuy, this is clearly not the right forum for political analysis. This said, I fully agree with you. Seems like only non-americans have the intellectual freedom to cast a doubt on US government action!
Forget the SUV story. Want real nonsense? How about this: If you question the official american position, you're not patriotic. Talk about democracy!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I notice this as well, it's seems to be a case of follow the party line, or you're a political dissident, or some crank...
Anyways, enough politics! If you really want to help the US economy, and keep your dollars from supporting terrorism, switch to propane! If you're worried about losing a little power, propane has an RON of 130, so you can run mucho boost or compression. Also, if you have a heating tank at your house, automotive fuel taxes aren't applicable, making it an exceptional deal!
<strong>BigPorscheGuy, this is clearly not the right forum for political analysis. This said, I fully agree with you. Seems like only non-americans have the intellectual freedom to cast a doubt on US government action!
Forget the SUV story. Want real nonsense? How about this: If you question the official american position, you're not patriotic. Talk about democracy!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I notice this as well, it's seems to be a case of follow the party line, or you're a political dissident, or some crank...
Anyways, enough politics! If you really want to help the US economy, and keep your dollars from supporting terrorism, switch to propane! If you're worried about losing a little power, propane has an RON of 130, so you can run mucho boost or compression. Also, if you have a heating tank at your house, automotive fuel taxes aren't applicable, making it an exceptional deal!
01-11-2003, 04:57 PM
#17
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any of the listers old enough to remember this same portrayal back in the early-mid 70s during the fuel shortage? Burning fossil fuel was evil. All the great hybrid US-V8 engined/euro-bodied sportscars like Panteras, Jensens, Isos, etc, all disappeared. Popular opinion turned pretty heavy against unbridled fuel consumption.
Ariana's soapbox doesn't sound that different from the platform Nixon stood on that gave us 55mph national speed limits.
The upside for me? I was able to score a low milage '71 deTomaso Pantera dirt cheap.
Ariana's soapbox doesn't sound that different from the platform Nixon stood on that gave us 55mph national speed limits.
The upside for me? I was able to score a low milage '71 deTomaso Pantera dirt cheap.
01-12-2003, 12:21 AM
#18
There's a much better solution: Take half the money required to lead an attack in Iraq and give it to the first individual who comes up with an alternative to oil. With a few billions at stake, you can be sure some serious research will get going and within a few months, oil will be a thing of the past.
Then take a fourth of the money and give it to Porsche to develop an affordable supercar based on this new clean technology so that we can keep enjoying our toys without supporting terrorism!
And the remainder, well, there's enough in there to feed Africa for a few years.
Perfect World!
Regards,
Chris
Then take a fourth of the money and give it to Porsche to develop an affordable supercar based on this new clean technology so that we can keep enjoying our toys without supporting terrorism!
And the remainder, well, there's enough in there to feed Africa for a few years.
Perfect World!
Regards,
Chris
01-14-2003, 11:06 PM
#20
"Noone was talking about any of this terrorist support and oil on 9-10"
Depends where you looked. The mass media never encouraged anyone to figure out why the attacks were carried out. Rather, we were told to be satisfied with an overly simplistic explanation: "They are bad guys, that's why they did it". Would such a well orchestrated attack, involving the voluntary death of its players, be done out of unfounded anger and folly? No.
Terrorism activity is fueled by outright despair and frustration. American foreign policy in the Middle East is perceived by arabs to be oppressive and unfair, and whether these perceptions are legitimate or not doesn't matter. The arab population feel their oil is being ripped off since the West controls the few in power (Saoud dynasty is a good example, US supports its monarchy, because it's much easier to control a few leaders with large monetary incentives than controlling a large democracy). We've created frustrated human beings, partly because of our excessive consumption of oil, and that's exactly what terrorist groups feed on.
The genuine US interests in Iraq are clear: invade, control, and obtain unrestricted access to its huge oil ressources. Also, take a map: What's between Afghanistan and Iraq? Yes, Iran. Bingo.
So there. More frustrated locals. More vulnerable candidates for terrorist groups.
Bottom line, in the process of leaving people behind, you've created the perfect situation for terrorism. The link between oil and terrorism is not far fetched, at all.
Regards,
Chris
Depends where you looked. The mass media never encouraged anyone to figure out why the attacks were carried out. Rather, we were told to be satisfied with an overly simplistic explanation: "They are bad guys, that's why they did it". Would such a well orchestrated attack, involving the voluntary death of its players, be done out of unfounded anger and folly? No.
Terrorism activity is fueled by outright despair and frustration. American foreign policy in the Middle East is perceived by arabs to be oppressive and unfair, and whether these perceptions are legitimate or not doesn't matter. The arab population feel their oil is being ripped off since the West controls the few in power (Saoud dynasty is a good example, US supports its monarchy, because it's much easier to control a few leaders with large monetary incentives than controlling a large democracy). We've created frustrated human beings, partly because of our excessive consumption of oil, and that's exactly what terrorist groups feed on.
The genuine US interests in Iraq are clear: invade, control, and obtain unrestricted access to its huge oil ressources. Also, take a map: What's between Afghanistan and Iraq? Yes, Iran. Bingo.
So there. More frustrated locals. More vulnerable candidates for terrorist groups.
Bottom line, in the process of leaving people behind, you've created the perfect situation for terrorism. The link between oil and terrorism is not far fetched, at all.
Regards,
Chris
01-15-2003, 01:26 AM
#21
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I support the Constitution and Bill of Rights, Bush is gonna get the USA's *** in a wringer, he's pissing off too many countries and losing support from others. The US has too many issues back here at home and a population that doesn't care about their own country. I live in a city that has plenty of issues that need adressing and we can't even get our own people to live together in peace. There's not alot of patriotism let in America I'm afraid. I think this country is screwed due to idiocity of it's own people spread by it;'s own people. IMO
01-15-2003, 01:46 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Encinitas, CA "Surf Capital of the World"
Posts: 950
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your funny!!! I wouldn't admit to being a terrorist it on a web site. The FBI and CIA are monitoring all internet traffic....silly rabbit!
A little advice: Don't admit it publicly mother of Saddam!
A little advice: Don't admit it publicly mother of Saddam!
01-15-2003, 07:45 AM
#23
Pro
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While I agree with some of you, disagree with some of you, and very much agree with ELLSSUU, I want to add a few tidbits.
First: While you may think that having an SUV is supporting terrorism, and that they are un-necessary and wasteful vehicles, people see you drive buy in your Porsche and think exactly the same thing about YOU. What are you going to say when they attack your sports car ownership (and they won't care whether it's the 4-cylinder I get 25 MPG Porsche or the big *** V-8 I get 25 Gallons to the Mile Chevy, you've got a sports car, and that's supporting terrorism). The fact of the matter is, whether or not you judge someone else's ownership of an SUV as needed or not, they have a right to buy one, and obviously THEY have decided they need one. I own three vehicles (of which I get told I'm being wasteful...but wait...I can only drive one at a time..?) and yes, my name is Mark, and I'm an SUV owner. And when I'm driving that SUV I can garuntee you, I'm either moving through snow or bad weather (as it's very good in that), hauling something, or on my way to pick up something to haul...period. Wasteful? I guess I could make 15 trips in my P-car to match what I can fit in a full size Durango...if whatever I'm hauling (like my 125 lb. DOG) will break down.
Secondly: pig4bill - Do some media coverage research into the Food For Oil program and you're going to find out it supports more terrorism than any SUV. Think the poor is getting food for oil? Think Saddam is only selling the oil that the U.N. (read U.S. because no one else really gives a ****) allows? No
Thirdly: Kit_Chris - Pleny of americans speak out both for and against war with Iraq, and our foreign policies. Don't hold yourself in such high regard just because you are not from the U.S. Being an American means having the intellectual freedom to do, act, and say what it is you want (I'm not going to argue that there aren't limitations to this, but that's a longer debate). Because many people CHOOSE to back what is happening doesn't mean we have no intellectual freedom to NOT back what is happening. Big difference, don't try and belittle us for our intellectual freedoms, no one here spoke out about the tree-loving, give peace a chance, un-patriotic you must be a ****ing wacko commie hippie (or whatever the term is now adays).
nine-44: There is a lot of patriotism left in America - Come out here to VA and you'll see it. Drive through the country and look at the bumper stickers and waving American flags thare are prevalent EVERYWHERE. I've talked to people who say the further west they travel the less of that they see...difference's in the country, it IS a big country, but there is still a LOT of patriotism.
Quote: Would such a well orchestrated attack, involving the voluntary death of its players, be done out of unfounded anger and folly?
Yup. As is what happened. They didn't attack us because we use too much of their oil! And Chris - so you know, America does not set the prices of oil, we buy a lot of our oil through OPEC (Remember them) who are full of countries that really don't like the US (including the middle eastern countries) and they can *think* we're ripping them off all they want to, but we're not. Besides the fact that you can look at the immense wealth of those nations, they know they have to COMPETE. Only about 1/2 of all our oil comes from OPEC, they're just pissed that it's not fully 100%. At any rate, I know of a few Russians who have more oil than the entire mid-east who'd just LOVE to sell us some oil. You want to REALLY **** off the Arabs? We could stop buying oil from them. Think it takes oil profits to support terrorism? Find out what kind of bombs can be made for free (I'll tell you what kind: They take box cutters to control, and fly at speeds in excess of 500 mph).
To pointedly disagree with you Chris: The link between terrorism and oil IS far fetched.
First: While you may think that having an SUV is supporting terrorism, and that they are un-necessary and wasteful vehicles, people see you drive buy in your Porsche and think exactly the same thing about YOU. What are you going to say when they attack your sports car ownership (and they won't care whether it's the 4-cylinder I get 25 MPG Porsche or the big *** V-8 I get 25 Gallons to the Mile Chevy, you've got a sports car, and that's supporting terrorism). The fact of the matter is, whether or not you judge someone else's ownership of an SUV as needed or not, they have a right to buy one, and obviously THEY have decided they need one. I own three vehicles (of which I get told I'm being wasteful...but wait...I can only drive one at a time..?) and yes, my name is Mark, and I'm an SUV owner. And when I'm driving that SUV I can garuntee you, I'm either moving through snow or bad weather (as it's very good in that), hauling something, or on my way to pick up something to haul...period. Wasteful? I guess I could make 15 trips in my P-car to match what I can fit in a full size Durango...if whatever I'm hauling (like my 125 lb. DOG) will break down.
Secondly: pig4bill - Do some media coverage research into the Food For Oil program and you're going to find out it supports more terrorism than any SUV. Think the poor is getting food for oil? Think Saddam is only selling the oil that the U.N. (read U.S. because no one else really gives a ****) allows? No
Thirdly: Kit_Chris - Pleny of americans speak out both for and against war with Iraq, and our foreign policies. Don't hold yourself in such high regard just because you are not from the U.S. Being an American means having the intellectual freedom to do, act, and say what it is you want (I'm not going to argue that there aren't limitations to this, but that's a longer debate). Because many people CHOOSE to back what is happening doesn't mean we have no intellectual freedom to NOT back what is happening. Big difference, don't try and belittle us for our intellectual freedoms, no one here spoke out about the tree-loving, give peace a chance, un-patriotic you must be a ****ing wacko commie hippie (or whatever the term is now adays).
nine-44: There is a lot of patriotism left in America - Come out here to VA and you'll see it. Drive through the country and look at the bumper stickers and waving American flags thare are prevalent EVERYWHERE. I've talked to people who say the further west they travel the less of that they see...difference's in the country, it IS a big country, but there is still a LOT of patriotism.
Quote: Would such a well orchestrated attack, involving the voluntary death of its players, be done out of unfounded anger and folly?
Yup. As is what happened. They didn't attack us because we use too much of their oil! And Chris - so you know, America does not set the prices of oil, we buy a lot of our oil through OPEC (Remember them) who are full of countries that really don't like the US (including the middle eastern countries) and they can *think* we're ripping them off all they want to, but we're not. Besides the fact that you can look at the immense wealth of those nations, they know they have to COMPETE. Only about 1/2 of all our oil comes from OPEC, they're just pissed that it's not fully 100%. At any rate, I know of a few Russians who have more oil than the entire mid-east who'd just LOVE to sell us some oil. You want to REALLY **** off the Arabs? We could stop buying oil from them. Think it takes oil profits to support terrorism? Find out what kind of bombs can be made for free (I'll tell you what kind: They take box cutters to control, and fly at speeds in excess of 500 mph).
To pointedly disagree with you Chris: The link between terrorism and oil IS far fetched.
01-15-2003, 07:55 AM
#24
Geaux Tigers!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Prerydog-----well said.
I'm getting sick and tired of people telling me how to spend my OWN money. It's getting to the point where a person holding a job, married with well rounded kids has become something of an evil oager. This is pitiful. I'll repeat again for the people that simply don't understand.........It's my own damn money, I earned it, and I'll spend it however the hell I want to! If I want a big SUV then so be it.
This is getting crazy, first we'll give up our rights to smoke in a restaraunt, then to own a gun, then to own a SUV, then to own a sportscar (like Porsche), then to own a yard full of grass, then to travel more than 10 miles to work, then, then, then, then.
I'm getting sick and tired of people telling me how to spend my OWN money. It's getting to the point where a person holding a job, married with well rounded kids has become something of an evil oager. This is pitiful. I'll repeat again for the people that simply don't understand.........It's my own damn money, I earned it, and I'll spend it however the hell I want to! If I want a big SUV then so be it.
This is getting crazy, first we'll give up our rights to smoke in a restaraunt, then to own a gun, then to own a SUV, then to own a sportscar (like Porsche), then to own a yard full of grass, then to travel more than 10 miles to work, then, then, then, then.
01-15-2003, 11:51 AM
#25
PrerYDoG, thanks for your response. While your approach of attacking my credibility as non-american rather than addressing the arguments I put forward is dishonest, I appreciate your relative openness.
I'm not trying to win the "I'm right you're wrong" contest, otherwise I would have picked a more popular stance. Neither of us need be right, what matters is that a reasonable and open debate takes place (not here, in general). Watching US television on a daily basis, I do not feel this is happening. Rather, one single side of the story prevails with no room left for criticism, to the point where your president says "You're either with me completely, or you're not", and making such crucial decisions without a proper look at all possible sides is extremely dangerous.
This said, I suggest you re-read my post. I'll be delighted to be proven wrong. Except this time, focus on the ideas, not the people.
Regards,
Chris
I'm not trying to win the "I'm right you're wrong" contest, otherwise I would have picked a more popular stance. Neither of us need be right, what matters is that a reasonable and open debate takes place (not here, in general). Watching US television on a daily basis, I do not feel this is happening. Rather, one single side of the story prevails with no room left for criticism, to the point where your president says "You're either with me completely, or you're not", and making such crucial decisions without a proper look at all possible sides is extremely dangerous.
This said, I suggest you re-read my post. I'll be delighted to be proven wrong. Except this time, focus on the ideas, not the people.
Regards,
Chris
01-15-2003, 12:00 PM
#26
Unaffiliated
ELLSSUU, While I agree with 95% of your post, the smoking in a restaurant is a reach. You don't have the right to assist me to a prolonged suicide, nor ruin my meal. I'll fight with my gun to own my SUV and sportscar, but smokers in public places are an enemy to my family's health and enjoyment. I draw the "freedom" line where it starts to negatively impact other's freedoms.
01-15-2003, 01:02 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The smoking thing is a pet peeve of mine. There's nothing "public" about a restaurant, bar, etc. It's a private business. It should be up to the owner to decide if they want to allow people to smoke. And no, I don't smoke.
01-15-2003, 04:56 PM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Sadly enough I didn't see a tenth of the patriotic bumper stickers before 9-11. We're ripping them off? what else are they going to do feed all their oil to camels? They wouldn't have any money if it wasn't for the US. Our population as citizens could not defend themselves if they wanted to, the gov't don't want them to have guns. If you take the guns away from law abiding citizens then only criminals will have them. If the troops are all out to war, how can the citizens defend themselves or life, liberty and their pursuit of happiness?
01-15-2003, 05:53 PM
#29
Unaffiliated
The smoking thing is a Peeve of mine too, and I agree it is up to the owner if there are smoking or non-smoking sections. BUT, in most resturants you can get a non-smoking table 5 feet from a pack of smokers. It's like having a "non-peeing" section in a pool. I don't hesitate to let management know I won't be back and why. I know it is a hard decision for them, it's a lose/lose scenario. Customers get ticked either way.
Ell mentioned public places, and that isn't exactly resturants.. more like malls, shopping centers, public buildings, etc. I'm glad my govt is defending my rights to clean air in those places. I'd also love to see cops fine A-Holes who flick butts out the windows, it's littering plain and simple, yet gets ignored all the time. I've even seen cop cars do it. Ever see the pile of butts a the top of exit ramps? I'd love to shovel them into the lap of the driver I see do it.. while still lit if able.
OK..:RANT OFF: I'm better now..thanks for loanin me the soapbox..
Ell mentioned public places, and that isn't exactly resturants.. more like malls, shopping centers, public buildings, etc. I'm glad my govt is defending my rights to clean air in those places. I'd also love to see cops fine A-Holes who flick butts out the windows, it's littering plain and simple, yet gets ignored all the time. I've even seen cop cars do it. Ever see the pile of butts a the top of exit ramps? I'd love to shovel them into the lap of the driver I see do it.. while still lit if able.
OK..:RANT OFF: I'm better now..thanks for loanin me the soapbox..
01-15-2003, 08:16 PM
#30
7th Gear
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: australia
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I'll repeat again for the people that simply don't understand.........It's my own damn money, I earned it, and I'll spend it however the hell I want to! If I want a big SUV then so be it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Here I think is a reasonable analogy to that comment:
"I can urinate so I'm going to do so in the spa bath even though the rest of the world is in it with me, and I either don't understand why (or don't care that) the rest of the world is starting getting frustrated with my self centered existance."
I guesss either;
there are enough people in America who support this line of reasoning,
or (maybe more likely?)
The average american is concerned about climate change and being a citizen of the #1 world polluter, but the political resitance to damaging the bottom line of the oil companies and derivative industries that 'sponser' american democracy is slowing change to a snails pace.
As mike moore raises, Why are there no nightly news stories on the respitory system releated deaths in LA even though
the numbers are orders of magnitude greater than shootings?
Is it because - "If it bleads it leads" and the average American SUV driver likes to sit on the couch and watch 'cops', have a bud and vote for the guy who does the best John Wayne tough guy with a tax cut on the side impression.
PS Feel free to substitute 'Australian' for 'American'.
And to close off here I think are few more reasons
to own a SUV:
1. The extra weight could save your life in an unseasonal tornado.
2. Mountain bikes take up way more room than snow-boards.
3. Their motors can drive much more powerful air-conditioners.
Mike Moore / David Suzuki for president / prime minister up your way.
rgds,
An Aussie snowbarder / scientist.
<img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />
"I can urinate so I'm going to do so in the spa bath even though the rest of the world is in it with me, and I either don't understand why (or don't care that) the rest of the world is starting getting frustrated with my self centered existance."
I guesss either;
there are enough people in America who support this line of reasoning,
or (maybe more likely?)
The average american is concerned about climate change and being a citizen of the #1 world polluter, but the political resitance to damaging the bottom line of the oil companies and derivative industries that 'sponser' american democracy is slowing change to a snails pace.
As mike moore raises, Why are there no nightly news stories on the respitory system releated deaths in LA even though
the numbers are orders of magnitude greater than shootings?
Is it because - "If it bleads it leads" and the average American SUV driver likes to sit on the couch and watch 'cops', have a bud and vote for the guy who does the best John Wayne tough guy with a tax cut on the side impression.
PS Feel free to substitute 'Australian' for 'American'.
And to close off here I think are few more reasons
to own a SUV:
1. The extra weight could save your life in an unseasonal tornado.
2. Mountain bikes take up way more room than snow-boards.
3. Their motors can drive much more powerful air-conditioners.
Mike Moore / David Suzuki for president / prime minister up your way.
rgds,
An Aussie snowbarder / scientist.
<img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />