Cobras
11-01-2002, 10:53 AM
#16
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[quote]Originally posted by Luke:
<strong>
50 wheel horse from exhaust? <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
uh...yeah...i usedto word for a company that built ford based race cars.
A blower at 10 psi was an instant 100 horse on a cbobra motor. A set of long tube headers in addition would make another 70 hp at the wheels.
I had probably 2 dozen customers with 450-500hp at the wheels who put 15k miles on the things on the street every year.
One of my friends (and a participant in the opentrackchallenge i should add) is the tech editor for Road & Track. Last week using only a bolt on blower, tweaked electronics and fuel pumps, I watched him make 617 RWHP at 19psi...on pump gas...through the cats.
I have seen between 10-20 lightning pick ups do the same thing.
Our 951s are great, but lets get serious...the current fords have multi-valve v-8s with a proper pent roof combustion chamber (the last set i flowed went 330CFM through the intake port). More importantly, their engine management systems opertae faster and more dynamically than the computers that designed our 951s.
Put 19 psi through them and you are gonna make some serious power. No way to make power like this out of 2.5-3.0l motor on pump gas...it would be about 300hp per liter.
My own race car is powered by a 5.1 liter normally aspirated version of this same motor. With cams, and a proper 180degree header, this motor makes 470hp at 8400 rpm...naturally aspirated..even at only 10% drivline loss, that would be 100hp per liter.
Dont trivialize these motors....they swing a lot more meat than the 951.
<strong>
50 wheel horse from exhaust? <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
uh...yeah...i usedto word for a company that built ford based race cars.
A blower at 10 psi was an instant 100 horse on a cbobra motor. A set of long tube headers in addition would make another 70 hp at the wheels.
I had probably 2 dozen customers with 450-500hp at the wheels who put 15k miles on the things on the street every year.
One of my friends (and a participant in the opentrackchallenge i should add) is the tech editor for Road & Track. Last week using only a bolt on blower, tweaked electronics and fuel pumps, I watched him make 617 RWHP at 19psi...on pump gas...through the cats.
I have seen between 10-20 lightning pick ups do the same thing.
Our 951s are great, but lets get serious...the current fords have multi-valve v-8s with a proper pent roof combustion chamber (the last set i flowed went 330CFM through the intake port). More importantly, their engine management systems opertae faster and more dynamically than the computers that designed our 951s.
Put 19 psi through them and you are gonna make some serious power. No way to make power like this out of 2.5-3.0l motor on pump gas...it would be about 300hp per liter.
My own race car is powered by a 5.1 liter normally aspirated version of this same motor. With cams, and a proper 180degree header, this motor makes 470hp at 8400 rpm...naturally aspirated..even at only 10% drivline loss, that would be 100hp per liter.
Dont trivialize these motors....they swing a lot more meat than the 951.
11-01-2002, 11:01 AM
#17
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There's one guy with the new supercharged cobra that changed the pulley for the Sc and installed a mid pipe and got 450 at the wheels. Imagine if there was big work done to that thing. CAN you say 1000 hp?
11-02-2002, 07:06 AM
#18
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Turbo Time,
I did not do above 155 in fourth. By that time I had shifted into fifth. Car has hp to pull redline and then some. Fifth gear ratio is the limit. But then who really should exceed 175 on the highways.....at least very often.
My car spent some quality time at Speedforce Racing and thus:
SFR stage II turbo, Garett ball bearing hybrid, #6 hot side, TO4E compressor
3" stainless exhaust, sans cat.
Maf, ARC II, Split Second.
Tial Wastegate, 1 bar spring
Forge BOV
3bar adj FPR
Guru Racing Chipset
(Tim did I miss anything?)
Mundane stuff, nothing to the level of rage or the guy with the 500hp millege motor.
Currently running 13 psi of boost without boost controler. Stock injectors are at their limit. Next mod will be injectors and boost controller. Then it will be 18 psi with scramble of maybe 20 psi.
I mix 2 gallons of Toluene per fill up. And that makes a NOTICABLE improvement from diet fuel (pump gas).
And the funny thing about modifying.....cobra/corvette/toyota/yugo.....their's always someone that spends more money than you.
......damn, where did I put that 917 block?
I did not do above 155 in fourth. By that time I had shifted into fifth. Car has hp to pull redline and then some. Fifth gear ratio is the limit. But then who really should exceed 175 on the highways.....at least very often.
My car spent some quality time at Speedforce Racing and thus:
SFR stage II turbo, Garett ball bearing hybrid, #6 hot side, TO4E compressor
3" stainless exhaust, sans cat.
Maf, ARC II, Split Second.
Tial Wastegate, 1 bar spring
Forge BOV
3bar adj FPR
Guru Racing Chipset
(Tim did I miss anything?)
Mundane stuff, nothing to the level of rage or the guy with the 500hp millege motor.
Currently running 13 psi of boost without boost controler. Stock injectors are at their limit. Next mod will be injectors and boost controller. Then it will be 18 psi with scramble of maybe 20 psi.
I mix 2 gallons of Toluene per fill up. And that makes a NOTICABLE improvement from diet fuel (pump gas).
And the funny thing about modifying.....cobra/corvette/toyota/yugo.....their's always someone that spends more money than you.
......damn, where did I put that 917 block?
11-02-2002, 02:55 PM
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Thanks Bill,
I'm always looking to compare for future upgrades. I'm going to look at SFR site on your turbo - sound interesting.
You say: And the funny thing about modifying.....cobra/corvette/toyota/yugo.....their's always someone that spends more money than you.
Yeah, I would definately agree with you on that!
I'm always looking to compare for future upgrades. I'm going to look at SFR site on your turbo - sound interesting.
You say: And the funny thing about modifying.....cobra/corvette/toyota/yugo.....their's always someone that spends more money than you.
Yeah, I would definately agree with you on that!
11-03-2002, 01:16 AM
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Luke,
If thats the case....give it back, I dont want to share! LOL
what size injectors are you running?
Danno thinks i should run 65's. He is the GURU after all. I am searching for 350 rwhp. I think I will be happy there.
good luck getting 917 jugs....Porsche welded them to the heads.....kind of a "chastity bra" so to speak.
If thats the case....give it back, I dont want to share! LOL
what size injectors are you running?
Danno thinks i should run 65's. He is the GURU after all. I am searching for 350 rwhp. I think I will be happy there.
good luck getting 917 jugs....Porsche welded them to the heads.....kind of a "chastity bra" so to speak.
11-03-2002, 09:21 AM
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I have a friend with a 93 Cobra with a centrifugal Powerdyne blower. He states the car makes 390 to the ground and 460 at the crank. It runs 8 psig of boost. I was in it and it was quite fast, about on par with my Bastard, if not maybe even a bit faster. He runs a lot of autocrosses with it, so it is built right, with a nice suspension (Tokico I think).
11-03-2002, 11:37 AM
#26
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Yes... the new blown SVT's makes gobs of power. Given Ford's previous problems with their
Cobras (having to recall them, 'cause they didn't make the power advertised), I suspect they are being very conservative in their power ratings. Once bitten, twice shy?
I too have seen an 2002 SVT make 400+rwhp on a local dyno. I've also seen/heard of two STOCK cars blowing their motors. Both cars have less than 20K miles. Surf over to corner-carvers.com (big time mustang guys), and search for their opinions on the new blown SVT motor. They not exactly singing it's praises at the top of their lungs. I think Ford's warranty program is going to take some serious beatings from this car.
Somebody has to explain something to me. Given that 500+hp mustang motors seem to be growing on trees (seems everybodies friend has one!)... how come I RARELY IF EVER see any competative mustangs at local opentracking/multi-class racing days? Even with the worst chassis in the world, a 500hp car would absolutely clean up (if he had brakes!). Frankly, with so much power, cornering ability would become moot: floor it to the next corner, stand on the brakes and take the corner slow No one will ever pass you!
I'll give you the lineup at pretty much ANY local muli-make race/timetrial day I have every seen. In the top 5, in no particular order invariably are:
- Viper GTS
- Corvette Z06
- Porsche 911 or variant thereof
- Porsche 944T (of course!)
- any misc japenese sportscar (RX7/Supra/NSX)
In fact, the only competative mustangs I have ever seen are the factory racecar ones: Corbra R's and such.
I submit that these 99% 'monster' motors would never last a serious session on track. Good thing that they can do <12 sec quarter miles... 'cause any longer they would break!
Cobras (having to recall them, 'cause they didn't make the power advertised), I suspect they are being very conservative in their power ratings. Once bitten, twice shy?
I too have seen an 2002 SVT make 400+rwhp on a local dyno. I've also seen/heard of two STOCK cars blowing their motors. Both cars have less than 20K miles. Surf over to corner-carvers.com (big time mustang guys), and search for their opinions on the new blown SVT motor. They not exactly singing it's praises at the top of their lungs. I think Ford's warranty program is going to take some serious beatings from this car.
Somebody has to explain something to me. Given that 500+hp mustang motors seem to be growing on trees (seems everybodies friend has one!)... how come I RARELY IF EVER see any competative mustangs at local opentracking/multi-class racing days? Even with the worst chassis in the world, a 500hp car would absolutely clean up (if he had brakes!). Frankly, with so much power, cornering ability would become moot: floor it to the next corner, stand on the brakes and take the corner slow
No one will ever pass you!I'll give you the lineup at pretty much ANY local muli-make race/timetrial day I have every seen. In the top 5, in no particular order invariably are:
- Viper GTS
- Corvette Z06
- Porsche 911 or variant thereof
- Porsche 944T (of course!)
- any misc japenese sportscar (RX7/Supra/NSX)
In fact, the only competative mustangs I have ever seen are the factory racecar ones: Corbra R's and such.
I submit that these 99% 'monster' motors would never last a serious session on track. Good thing that they can do <12 sec quarter miles... 'cause any longer they would break!
11-03-2002, 12:35 PM
#27
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Unfortunately, those kinds of examples are what happens when you have bean counters making the decisions instead of the engineers. I've always been a Ford loyalist, even though I don't own any right now. I've got my fingers crossed, hoping Bill Ford will start making Fords that run Lemans again, as well as knock off the gay 'conversation' commercials he's doing.
Alot of the failures you're seeing are from owners taking the cheap route when they mod their cars. Too many HS kids with 5.0s who want NAWWWS on their 160k mile engine, etc.. As for the '03 Cobras, overdriving roots-style blowers is known to cause damage. The rotors get eaten up fast when they're spun to fast not to mention the 65%-ish efficiency of their compressors.. heat and detonation city. I have no idea if this is what's happening, just a thought.
Alot of the failures you're seeing are from owners taking the cheap route when they mod their cars. Too many HS kids with 5.0s who want NAWWWS on their 160k mile engine, etc.. As for the '03 Cobras, overdriving roots-style blowers is known to cause damage. The rotors get eaten up fast when they're spun to fast not to mention the 65%-ish efficiency of their compressors.. heat and detonation city. I have no idea if this is what's happening, just a thought.
11-03-2002, 01:51 PM
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The Ford Company decided to stop producing the new supercharged mustang. This is new news and The guys who bought them are in trouble because these cars are not going to last long (eninge life wise). I wonder what they'll come out with next. If you think about it. These cars are going to be worth good money now. It was out for only a matter of months.
