Guru MAP II with Lindsey DPW
03-02-2003, 05:09 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Guru MAP II with Lindsey DPW
Hello,
I have read many topics regarding the Guru MAP stage 2 upgrade and have become more confused. I have some custom chips made in the UK, MBC, 3bar FPR, and Lindsey dual port wastegate. I am more than satisfied with the results, with the car (Euro spec 1991 turbo S) being faster than my friends 993 C2 (varioram), and 928 GTS. I want to beat the new M3 though... From what I've read, MAP is the way to go as the best approach to plug and play (well...almost) I don't want to discard the chips, and am very pleased with DPW. Are these two compatible with MAP? Will I see considerable increase in power BEFORE I proceed to turbo upgrade ? HELP PLEASE, as I leave in Europe, and can't "pop by" for a fine tune. Car is my daily driver and I don't want drivability/reliability issues
I have read many topics regarding the Guru MAP stage 2 upgrade and have become more confused. I have some custom chips made in the UK, MBC, 3bar FPR, and Lindsey dual port wastegate. I am more than satisfied with the results, with the car (Euro spec 1991 turbo S) being faster than my friends 993 C2 (varioram), and 928 GTS. I want to beat the new M3 though... From what I've read, MAP is the way to go as the best approach to plug and play (well...almost) I don't want to discard the chips, and am very pleased with DPW. Are these two compatible with MAP? Will I see considerable increase in power BEFORE I proceed to turbo upgrade ? HELP PLEASE, as I leave in Europe, and can't "pop by" for a fine tune. Car is my daily driver and I don't want drivability/reliability issues
03-02-2003, 07:17 AM
#2
Race Director
We installed two MAP kits last weekend, a Stg.1 on a stock TurboS and a Stg.2 on a TurboS previously upgraded with AutoThority chips.
Our MAP kits are tuned as a matched set of components. The MAP box replaces the stock AFM and allows you to remove the most restrictive part of the stock intake. Taking out the AFM alone is worth 1.5psi of boost automatically. This 2nd-generation MAP box is hard-coded with the voltage-response curve of the stock AFM, thus no signal-interception or massaging is necessary.
Our chips are then calibrated to work precisely with this configuration at 15psi max-boost. No corrections are necessary in the MAP box and only a few people have needed some fine-tuning to deal with non-standard mods. The highest-performing configuration then, is to install our complete MAP kit. We have deleted items for people who already have identical parts such as a 3-bar FPR and manual boost-controller, but that's only because they were identical to the components in or kits.
Without inspecting your chips to see what the custom-mods are, I can only surmise that they were fine-tuned for the particular configuration of your car. They most likely will not match your new configuration with the Stg.2 MAP kit as closely as our chips which are included as an integral part of the kit (we will not ship a MAP kit as separate components simply because of the after-installation tuning and support issues). We can only guarantee plug & play compatibility, the least amount of post-install tuning and the most reliability when our complete MAP kit is installed.
You can however, perform your own side-by-side comparison of our chips and your current ones for your own clarification. You can do this before and after the MAP installtion to have four test configurations. You'll find that using your chips with our kit is possible by getting the optional hand-held controller to make corrections in the MAP-sensor's 3D flow map. This may yield similar performance to our own chips in an uncorrected MAP box. However, it is very likely that your custom chips do not have the factory-programmed turbo-lag removed.
So in summary, for the maximum performance possible, it's best to install our complete MAP kits with all of its matching components. From the results of our last two TurboS MAP installs, I can confidently say that these cars are getting over 300rwhp @ 15psi. Which will be sufficient to blow that new M3 off the road!
Our MAP kits are tuned as a matched set of components. The MAP box replaces the stock AFM and allows you to remove the most restrictive part of the stock intake. Taking out the AFM alone is worth 1.5psi of boost automatically. This 2nd-generation MAP box is hard-coded with the voltage-response curve of the stock AFM, thus no signal-interception or massaging is necessary.
Our chips are then calibrated to work precisely with this configuration at 15psi max-boost. No corrections are necessary in the MAP box and only a few people have needed some fine-tuning to deal with non-standard mods. The highest-performing configuration then, is to install our complete MAP kit. We have deleted items for people who already have identical parts such as a 3-bar FPR and manual boost-controller, but that's only because they were identical to the components in or kits.
Without inspecting your chips to see what the custom-mods are, I can only surmise that they were fine-tuned for the particular configuration of your car. They most likely will not match your new configuration with the Stg.2 MAP kit as closely as our chips which are included as an integral part of the kit (we will not ship a MAP kit as separate components simply because of the after-installation tuning and support issues). We can only guarantee plug & play compatibility, the least amount of post-install tuning and the most reliability when our complete MAP kit is installed.
You can however, perform your own side-by-side comparison of our chips and your current ones for your own clarification. You can do this before and after the MAP installtion to have four test configurations. You'll find that using your chips with our kit is possible by getting the optional hand-held controller to make corrections in the MAP-sensor's 3D flow map. This may yield similar performance to our own chips in an uncorrected MAP box. However, it is very likely that your custom chips do not have the factory-programmed turbo-lag removed.
So in summary, for the maximum performance possible, it's best to install our complete MAP kits with all of its matching components. From the results of our last two TurboS MAP installs, I can confidently say that these cars are getting over 300rwhp @ 15psi. Which will be sufficient to blow that new M3 off the road!
03-02-2003, 02:22 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
What about the Lindsey Dual Port Wastegate ? Can this be used ? What would the final price be without FPR, MBC and shims? Since I bought these chips sometime ago, I can't afford to discard them, so I may have to order upgrading parts from the company that supplied me the chips. Please comment
03-02-2003, 04:36 PM
#4
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Danno:
<strong> From the results of our last two TurboS MAP installs, I can confidently say that these cars are getting over 300rwhp @ 15psi.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Danno,
Are those 300 hp results @15 psi for Turbo S cars that are otherwise stock, including factory cat? If so, that's impressive.
<strong> From the results of our last two TurboS MAP installs, I can confidently say that these cars are getting over 300rwhp @ 15psi.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Danno,
Are those 300 hp results @15 psi for Turbo S cars that are otherwise stock, including factory cat? If so, that's impressive.
03-02-2003, 04:40 PM
#5
Race Director
Sure, the DPW would work just fine. As long as you have the boost-controller set to give you flat boost-curve, the electronics doesn't know and doesn't care what is generating the air flow. You can deduct $60 off the purchase price for removing the FPR/MBC/shims on the Stg.1. Take $40 off the Stg.2 since it doesn't come with a boost-controller or shims.
You can try to retain your existing chips when going with further upgrades, but you'll need to have them re-mapped to the new flow-patterns. Not sure how they were done in the first place, but the way to ensure correct mapping is to do a dyno-session, inspect the air-fuel ratio curve, re-map the chip, and re-test with a follow-up dyno-run. This may require 1-3 iterations to get a flat air-fuel curve for your particular configuration. As you can imaging, this process is best done all at once on the dyno with chip re-mapping between runs. Shouldn't take more than 30-minutes to an hour.
You can try to retain your existing chips when going with further upgrades, but you'll need to have them re-mapped to the new flow-patterns. Not sure how they were done in the first place, but the way to ensure correct mapping is to do a dyno-session, inspect the air-fuel ratio curve, re-map the chip, and re-test with a follow-up dyno-run. This may require 1-3 iterations to get a flat air-fuel curve for your particular configuration. As you can imaging, this process is best done all at once on the dyno with chip re-mapping between runs. Shouldn't take more than 30-minutes to an hour.
