Turby

Damm I wish I could have seen your car when I was in SD..........What do you think of the Milledge intake?????

pig4bill

[quote]Originally posted by RPG951S:
<strong>&gt;&gt;RPG - very well said. Does that rpg stand for what I think it stands for?

Hehehehe... yes it's exactly what you think.
They're my </strong><hr></blockquote>

You mean it doesn't stand for an antique IBM programming language?

John Welch

&gt;&gt;You mean it doesn't stand for an antique IBM programming language?&lt;&lt;

Hey, they're still using that language at the shop I'm at right now!

Robby

This has become an interesting thread w/some good points- sure, you can make a Pinto run low 8's if you throw enough $ into one. As for 951's not being designed for the 1/4- it is true that neither were the FWD Hondas. It really comes down to what's important to YOU.

Several things though-

86944Turbo's car is a 540HP Jon Milledge built 968 turbo engine w/8v head AND 968 trans- He HAS run close to 135 (as far as I know) but w/HORRIBLE launches- he could do much better if given the time and motivation...

I didn't realize the driveline in these cars had so much flex? I'm not saying it's not true, but this is the first I've heard of that- what could be done to correct that?

As for stiffening up the rear- wouldn't you want it to squat more? I know w/the 300ZXTT that SCC built, they said they had to dial in some more rear squat to really help it's 1/4 times b/c of it's anti-squat geometry- I thought RWD dragsters NEEDED to squat?


KellyK-

That's the fastest time I've heard yet for one of these cars- the one mentioned above might give you trouble, if given the tire- I know his times were LOW 12's with, again, horrible launches- he was running stock sized street tires if I remember correctly...

So, have you ever clocked your car from 0-150-0 or by any chance done ANY braking tests (distance) on your car at all? I would love to hear some stats on that. Also, how much more did the 968 tranny actually weigh than the 951 and could you FEEL a difference in distribution around the track? How much does your car weigh anyway? I would really like to hear more about it...

951carter

But then again that Honda was intended to be an economical car
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is no big deal to mutilate a POS like a honda, it is a lil' different when you are dealing with a Porsche. You can make a wheelbarrow haul *** if you invest enough money in it.

Take 1 lap around a road racing circuit in a Porsche and i promise you will forget all about racing to the end of the driveway(1/4 mile)in a honda

kellyk

[quote]Originally posted by Robby:

KellyK-

That's the fastest time I've heard yet for one of these cars- the one mentioned above might give you trouble, if given the tire- I know his times were LOW 12's with, again, horrible launches- he was running stock sized street tires if I remember correctly...

So, have you ever clocked your car from 0-150-0 or by any chance done ANY braking tests (distance) on your car at all? I would love to hear some stats on that. Also, how much more did the 968 tranny actually weigh than the 951 and could you FEEL a difference in distribution around the track? How much does your car weigh anyway? I would really like to hear more about it...[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

__________________________________________________

The car is being re-worked right now and I hope to get it down to about 2400 lbs. Probebly about 2550 right now with a full weld-in cage. I know that I can take off another 150 lbs with no problem.

I never had an opportunity to drive my stock 951 on the track before I did the 968 turbo conversion. The 6-speed is great and makes all the difference in the world. I have driven a few students 951's that were modified and my car just blows them away.

As soon as I get my new rotors everything is going back together and I hope to get some official times. I am reticent to do too many standing starts as I can't afford to break something just to show off the size of my $%^(.

Just started with this forum about 6 weeks ago and hope to have some pics and specs as soon as the car is back on the road.

BTW, I LOVE the Miledge manifold. I saw it today for the first time on his website. AWESOME! Vision has a similar one-off on "FLipper" but not in carbon-fibre. Hope to go to individual throttle bodies in the next 12 months. Better start saving my money.

Twinspool

Good thread, these are all excellent points why I am not jealous of the fast civics/preludes/eclipses out there. Damn FWD.

Yes, drag racing isn't as dynamic as autocross or even a DE event, but the real drag racers (not the all show-no go boys) are impressive. The ingenuity is quite amazing. You'd be surprised how cheaply you can get a pinto into the 9's with Ford's 2.3L 4-cyl turbo.. those crazy turbo-Forders are known to crank their cars up to 20-24 psi on the stock internals, with the stock turbo and run high 12's to low 13's.. In fact, go get a Merkur XR4TI and use that if you want a fast, reliable import without spending a fortune. Parts are cheaper than dirt and there is a surprising amount of support for them.

Hondas are commuter cars, the fast ones aren't Hondas any more, they're HKS or Greddy moneypits that have to be iced down between runs. Cars are built for a purpose, trying to improve that purpose is one thing, bastardizing what they were meant to do is another.

Here endeth the sermon

toddk911

I’ll have to check and see if I still have it, but I had a Turbo magazine from a few years ago (I only bought it because it had a 951 on the cover) that had a 9 second 951. I don’t remember all of the mods but I believe it was a 3L 16 motor as a base and was running turbo jacked up on a lot of boost and nitrous. I also want to say it was very streetable.

kellyk

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Twinspool:
"You'd be surprised how cheaply you can get a pinto into the 9's with Ford's 2.3L 4-cyl turbo.. those crazy turbo-Forders are known to crank their cars up to 20-24 psi on the stock internals, with the stock turbo and run high 12's to low 13's.. In fact, go get a Merkur XR4TI and use that if you want a fast, reliable import without spending a fortune. Parts are cheaper than dirt and there is a surprising amount of support for them."
--________________________________________________

My point exactly!

My engine: $40,000
Pinto engine: $3,000

Now do you see why we don't drag race?

adrial

You know whats funny...

KellyK's car with 525hp runs similar times to 1000hp supra's...

Robby

Adrial said:
"You know whats funny...
KellyK's car with 525hp runs similar times to 1000hp supra's..."

With all do respect, I have seen 800HP Supras run low 9's in stock trim, and if I'm not mistaken, some are tryig to break into the 7's now- I KNOW they've been well into the 8's for a long time... But, don't misudnrestand me- high 10's is UNREAL for a 951 or any Porsche really- hell, Eddie Bello's 993 is the only one I'm aware of that has run below a 10- he's actually gone into the 8's as far as I've seen, but I haven't kept up, and, the 993 is a much better car for dragging w/it's rear engien set-up- Eddie get's the front wheels off the ground hough 3rd gear!

Also, KellyK- you said the 968 trans makes a big dif- do you mean in it's strength, or gearing? I haven't had a lot of experience w/them, but I HATE their gearing- my goal is to build a bad *** engine and use a 968 trans, only w/custom (TALLER) gears. 1st is fine, 2nd is too short, but I could live w/it, but from there, I would pretty much HAVE to changfe the rest- i don't understadn WHY Porsche did that- it would have made more sense to have done the Turbo S that way- w/a 6-sp, they COULD have brought the gears SLIGHTLY closer together and had a nice tall 6th gear for cruising, that redlined at say, 180- as is, 6th reedlines at ~155 whereas the 951 redlines 5th at ~167- this w/stock RD of course....

kellyk

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robby:
"Also, KellyK- you said the 968 trans makes a big dif- do you mean in it's strength, or gearing? I haven't had a lot of experience w/them, but I HATE their gearing- my goal is to build a bad *** engine and use a 968 trans, only w/custom (TALLER) gears. 1st is fine, 2nd is too short, but I could live w/it, but from there, I would pretty much HAVE to changfe the rest- i don't understadn WHY Porsche did that- it would have made more sense to have done the Turbo S that way- w/a 6-sp, they COULD have brought the gears SLIGHTLY closer together and had a nice tall 6th gear for cruising, that redlined at say, 180- as is, 6th reedlines at ~155 whereas the 951 redlines 5th at ~167- this w/stock RD of course...."

There is NO WAY that my car will do anything like a 1,000 HP Supra. I am not the guy who made that compairison. I never built my car for street or drag racing, it just happens to be an acceleration animal.

The 6-speed gearbox is stronger and makes the car much more driveable. It is far superior to the 5-speed 951 box and works pretty well with my HP and torque curve. I do wish the gears were a little different too. I wish 3rd, 4th and 5th were a little lower as my turbo runs out of breath at 5700 RPM, and these seem to be critical gears. Hope to change that soon, but with gears starting at $600 each, it gets expensive. Because this is a track car now, 6th gear seems adequate as I can't reach 168 MPH (red line) on any track I have every run on. (That takes a mighty long straight to do that!)

What I love about my car is that with the high HP, flat torque curve, vario-cam and 6-speed, the car is very easy to drive and if you should miss a shift or come out of a corner in the wrong gear you won't kill you lap time as there is always plenty of power to spare and you are never too far away from the power kicking in.

This year I am changing the turbo impellers and adding a larger intercooler so that I can get more top end boost and hopefully run the engine under full power up to 6,200 RPM or so. Although the larger turbo will take a little bit longer to spool, I think the extra 50-60 HP we can add will be nice.

Robby

Kelly-

First off- I didn't mean to imply that you had made the 1000HP Supra reference- I just forgot to leave the name of who that quote was from- it's now edited- again though, I DID mean it w/consderation, not in an argumentative way (to both of you). Your car must be FAST AS F**K! If your TQ is relatively equal to your HP, then you should have close to a 1:5 power:weight ratio- I mean TQ/HP split- that's the way I figure ratios (AND, using test weight- not curb) as it seems to be a better indicator of accelaration...

Anyway- I knew the 968 trans was stronger- also heavier- part of what accounts for 968's better weight dist- 49/51 vs 51/49- of course, your's is probably completely different. I'd rather have the 968 trans any day. My question about it was really to ask if it was more responsive, etc and if that was why you said it helped so much- I think you would actually get a better 1/4 time w/taller gearing (more below)- also someone mentioned the 951 driveline as having flex(?).

968 gearing- you said redline was ~168- do you have a higher redline or was that a missprint? No offense intended either way and I don't mean to try to come across as a know-it-all, but everyone I've talked to, as well as Danno's website and the formula I use, etc, ALL show redline in 6th at ~156- shorter than 951 5th (~167)- but, no big deal...

More important- you said you wished the gears were "lower"- do you mean "taller" or are you referring to the #'s- a taller gear being lower numerically- or, do you really mean you'd like even SHORTER gears than the 968? That would surprise me, ESPECIALLY considering the EXTREME power you have. Even in a drag, you probably can't even hit full boost until at least 3rd- I realize that shorter gears are better for accelaration, BUT, there is a fine line, and the more power one has, the easier to hit that line- you COULD potentially end up in 6th by the time you crossed the line- not only would the extra shift (or two) hurt you, but also, you would never REALLY get the chance to FULLY open up in any of the gears, as you'd have to shift before getting the chance... Just curious...

Also, for future reference, I talked to Powerhaus II awhile back- they quoted me $300/ea for custom gears for the 968- HALF what you said- not sure where you got your quotes, but you may want to check them out. That's what I want to do, but I want to have an engine w/at least 350HP or so first- I want 6th to be capable of just over a 200mph redline w/all the other's as perfectly spaced as possible to maximize BOTH top speed AND accelaration- something like this possibly:
1st- 40, 2nd- 65, 3rd- 100, 4th- 135, 5th- 170, 6th- 205- (2nd would have to be a hair less- stock's ~63, so, no reason to spend $300 for just 2mph- ALSO, I THINK 5th RL's @ 135- IF that's the case, then I could use 5th for 4th and save $300 there too). I obviously think about this stuff too much huh?

Any input- other than I need to get another hobby?


<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Silverbullet951

Just to add something, I just found out that the fastest Q/M was a 3.22 at 396 miles per hour! the fastest speed, 450 mph. (btw these were rocket cars running on hydrogen peroxide fuel. 5000 lbs of thrust! ) Later.

special tool

Hey Silver - I'll smoke that rocket car with 23 p.s.i.