'89 951 questions
05-31-2003, 03:55 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
'89 951 questions
I've looked at a couple of '89 951's recently and thought I would post some info and questions here for general comment. I've had two 951's briefly, but am pretty much a novice about what's what with these cars.
Both are fairly high miles: 120K+ and 130K+ miles. In decent, but hardly pristine, mechanical shape. Cosmetically both are also fairly decent--no major dings, paint original and could be restored to good condition with proper detailing.
The 130K car has Weltmeister chips and a Lindsey bypass valve (??). I'm not sure what the "bypass valve" does or how it affects horsepower. The car seems quick to me--probably due mostly to the chips.
The 120K car has a Powerhaus K27 turbo and MAF, and, I presume corresponding Powerhaus chips (??). It seems *very* fast to me.
The 120K/Powerhaus car is priced about $2K higher than the higher-mileage Weltmeister car. As far as raw performance goes, either one would probably be plenty for me to start with.
Any comments/advice from turbo gurus here welcomed!
TIA.
Stephen Porter
Both are fairly high miles: 120K+ and 130K+ miles. In decent, but hardly pristine, mechanical shape. Cosmetically both are also fairly decent--no major dings, paint original and could be restored to good condition with proper detailing.
The 130K car has Weltmeister chips and a Lindsey bypass valve (??). I'm not sure what the "bypass valve" does or how it affects horsepower. The car seems quick to me--probably due mostly to the chips.
The 120K car has a Powerhaus K27 turbo and MAF, and, I presume corresponding Powerhaus chips (??). It seems *very* fast to me.
The 120K/Powerhaus car is priced about $2K higher than the higher-mileage Weltmeister car. As far as raw performance goes, either one would probably be plenty for me to start with.
Any comments/advice from turbo gurus here welcomed!
TIA.
Stephen Porter
05-31-2003, 05:04 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
I think the most important thing is, which of these cars has better service history. Are the belts changed in time, how many owners etc etc..
The powerhouse 951 is definatelly faster, with its larger turbo and so on. But don't stop staring at that. Compare the cars paint, dents interior..
2k is pretty little in case of a major engine failure, or transmission or or..
I bet they are both very cool p-cars.
But keet your head cool as well..
<img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />
Hope this help.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
The powerhouse 951 is definatelly faster, with its larger turbo and so on. But don't stop staring at that. Compare the cars paint, dents interior..
2k is pretty little in case of a major engine failure, or transmission or or..
I bet they are both very cool p-cars.
But keet your head cool as well..
<img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> Hope this help.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
05-31-2003, 02:30 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> The 130K car has Weltmeister chips and a Lindsey bypass valve (??). I'm not sure what the "bypass valve" does or how it affects horsepower. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Lindsey Boost Enhancer = LBE. This is a ball ckeck valve in the signal line to the cyclic valve. It keeps the wastegate from opening until boost hits a preset level (usually about 7-10 psi), which results in quicker turbo spoling and faster boost. It doesn't actually affect maximum horsepower, but it gives the car a wider, earlier torque band and makes it faster in the real world.
Both cars should be faster than stock, with a definite edge to the K27 and MAF of the Powerhaus car. It depends alot on how much boost each car is running. An LBE is okay for the chipped car, but I would want to see an aftermarket boost gauge and some kind of a boost controller on the Powerhaus car.
The 951 engines are very strong, but engine wear will definitely increase with boost. Do you know how much boost each car is running and, more importantly, has run in the past? Tuning is also vital on these cars. Mine has aftermarket chips; I put it on the dyno and found that it ran very rich; safer than lean, but not real good. Some aftermarket chips run lean at high RPM, which may cost you a head gasket or an engine. The Powerhaus car may be pushing the limits of the stock injectors, if they haven't been upgraded. I would like to see dyno charts for each of the cars, especially the Powerhaus car, showing the air-fuel mixture.
While these cars do last, they require quite a bit of routine or preventative maintenance that can add up quickly. At 100k miles, my car has all new brakes, clutch, steering rack, tie rods, front suspension bushings, motor mounts, belts and rollers, front, rear and oil pan seals, rebuilt PS pump and rebuilt starter. It will need ball joints/control arms soon, and I will not be surprised to have CV joint issues in the future. The maintenance records should show that many of these items have been done, or you can expect to do them yourself in the near future. Also, many people (including myself) do con rod bearings as preventative maintenance at 100k to 150k miles.
I am of the opinion that a car that has 120k or 130k miles and has had its maintenance issues addressed may be a better buy than one that has 70k to 90k and will shortly be needing brakes, clutch, motor mounts..... But it depends on records, quality of the service work and results of a PPI.
HTH <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
Both cars should be faster than stock, with a definite edge to the K27 and MAF of the Powerhaus car. It depends alot on how much boost each car is running. An LBE is okay for the chipped car, but I would want to see an aftermarket boost gauge and some kind of a boost controller on the Powerhaus car.
The 951 engines are very strong, but engine wear will definitely increase with boost. Do you know how much boost each car is running and, more importantly, has run in the past? Tuning is also vital on these cars. Mine has aftermarket chips; I put it on the dyno and found that it ran very rich; safer than lean, but not real good. Some aftermarket chips run lean at high RPM, which may cost you a head gasket or an engine. The Powerhaus car may be pushing the limits of the stock injectors, if they haven't been upgraded. I would like to see dyno charts for each of the cars, especially the Powerhaus car, showing the air-fuel mixture.
While these cars do last, they require quite a bit of routine or preventative maintenance that can add up quickly. At 100k miles, my car has all new brakes, clutch, steering rack, tie rods, front suspension bushings, motor mounts, belts and rollers, front, rear and oil pan seals, rebuilt PS pump and rebuilt starter. It will need ball joints/control arms soon, and I will not be surprised to have CV joint issues in the future. The maintenance records should show that many of these items have been done, or you can expect to do them yourself in the near future. Also, many people (including myself) do con rod bearings as preventative maintenance at 100k to 150k miles.
I am of the opinion that a car that has 120k or 130k miles and has had its maintenance issues addressed may be a better buy than one that has 70k to 90k and will shortly be needing brakes, clutch, motor mounts..... But it depends on records, quality of the service work and results of a PPI.
HTH <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />