Red S2

I had my valve job, head gasket, and new step 1 grind Elgin cams finally finished for my S2. It is chipped with Autothority chips, otherwise stock. The new Elgin cams made a world of difference; it now pulls much harder from 3500 RPM on and the flat band seems gone. I can actually pull in 5 th gear at 65 versus before.

Seat of the pants feel is much stronger.

I have another S2 with a 3 bar FPR and an KN cone filter. I loaned this to the friend who I had do the valve job. We did a 60-100 MPH in 5th on the x-way and I was 8-12 car lengths ahead.

This is a reasonable way to get much better performance for a reasonable cost. Elgin charged about $450 for the set of cams including nitriding and parkerizing.

Garrity did the valve job and just touched a couple of mils to flatten the head, I believe.

This is stock headgasket.

I am happy to drive this car even relative to Turbo S. I just smoked a stock 86 turbo coming home today.

I heartily recommend this upgrade.

Mike B

I just smoked a stock 86 turbo coming home today.

Pardon...

PorscheG96

This post is great, there are very few people who have engine mods done to their 16 valve 944's. How did your S2 feel with only the Autothority chip compared to stock, and compared to the S2 with the 3 bar FPR? I've been thinking of doing FPR and cams on my 968, what's Elgin's website? Won't you need a custom chip burned now that you've got different cams? Were you able to retain the stock idle with the new cams, or is it raised? Won't you need an adjustable FPR to get more fuel to the engine now? Thanks!

Red S2

The autothority chips did very little; they raised the red line. I could get just as much performance by increasing the mixture at the DME. I am not a great fan of the autothority S2 chips. Definitely not more than 10 HP if that.

The cams were great but I am not sure they will help a 968. Call John at Elgin cams.

Michael Maui also upcammed his S2 and reported something like 220 RWHP which I find very high. Speedforce could confirm the before part since he had a supercharger installed.

My idle is just a touch lumpier; the car idles fine at 1K.

I was going to sell this car and buy another turbo but I am definitely reconsidering. I expect a mild 5-6 psi supercharger would make this a really fine car.

The engine seemed to want to rev about 500 RPM higher at the same noise level from the engine compartment. I had a hard time staying under triple digits when I normally drive about 80-90.

Car feels about 10 mph faster but this is only subjective.

Red S2

Konstantin

sorry but,
I think you BS us. First of all you can not smoke not even be as fast as a 86 Turbo even if you have more HP you have much less Torque.
A S2 with a 3.0 Bar FPR? Come on. Either is a typo or you do not know what you are talking about. a S2 with a 3.0 Bar FPR would not even run!

Konstantin

Alan C.

On a slightly different note. I had a 95 968 MO30 and I never any problems with STOCK 86-88 951's. Note stock in caps. I could close right up on the rear of my friends PCA F 951 in the esses at the Glen or on the back straight at MidOhio. Throw in a set of chips on the turbo and it was a new game.

Alan

PorscheG96

[quote]I was going to sell this car and buy another turbo but I am definitely reconsidering. I expect a mild 5-6 psi supercharger would make this a really fine car.<hr></blockquote>
My guess is you'll have to buy cams again, in addition to swapping out the chip. The cams you got from Elgin are ideal for a normally aspirated car, with a fair amount of overlap at higher RPM's. Using those cams would let boost fly right back out the exhaust without being burned, and you're losing potential power that way. That's why I'm looking to change cams, so I can minimize overlap and prepare for a supercharger possibly next year. The 968's variocam that increases overlap is going in the wrong direction if forced induction is to be used.

Luke

red s2,

how about the "firehawk" chips? I am told the make 20 more horse. I think Jon Milledge has them?

Danno

[quote]The 968's variocam that increases overlap is going in the wrong direction if forced induction is to be used.<hr></blockquote>So is the advanced timing (more overlap) between 1500-5500rpm caused by the VarioCam being turn on? And the retarded timing above 5500rpm activated by turning the VarioCam off? Or is it the other way around?

I'm just trying to figure out what would happen if I pulled the VarioCam plug.

Red S2

Konstnatin-

You need to integrate the area under the curve from where you start to where you finish. I started at about 65 and we stopped accelerating low triple digits. A stock 86 tubo makes 217 HP. My upcammed S2 makes at least 10 HP more with Autothority chips. My redline is raised anyway. Note a chipped Turbo is much faster. I have an 88 Turbo S and it is much faster than my upcammed S2 but not at AX.

The point is the upcamming makes this a much better car. The throttle response does not have the flat spot around 4K that both of my S2 seemed to have.

Regarding the 3 bar FPR, this was purchased by a previous owner of one of my S2's from Paragon Products. I have his word. That car used to run much much better and had much better acceleration response. Just to remind you of the physics, the increase in flow goes as the square root of the pressure. The stock FPR is 2.5 Bar; hence, over 2500 RPM where the O2 sensor is not utilized, there is a 10% richening of a very lean mixture. That richening is just not going to stall this car.

Also, check Devek's web site about the rising rate regulator they use on 928's. This is equivalent to a Power Boost FPR. The Power Boost is a British product with a 1.7:1 rise to maximum.

At idle, you set the FP to 2.5 bar and it rises under accel to 3 bar or so.

It is possible I am incorrect, but check with Paragon regarding the FPR.

I suggest a little reading on your part; come back with some facts please.

Stock 86 Turbo's were not particularly fast by Porsche standards without chipping. My Turbo S is only faster due to more agressive programming. The 26/8 turbo is a junk box with gruesome lag. I have a trimmed 26/6 that should flow just as much at 6K anyway.

Danno

Doesn't the S2 have a 3-bar FPR as stock?

PorscheG96

[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>So is the advanced timing (more overlap) between 1500-5500rpm caused by the VarioCam being turn on? And the retarded timing above 5500rpm activated by turning the VarioCam off? Or is it the other way around?

I'm just trying to figure out what would happen if I pulled the VarioCam plug.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, you're right about timing being advanced when variocam is activated. I replied to you in the other thread when you asked but I don't think you saw it.

Konstantin

believe it or not
the S2 has stock 3.8 Bar. I have one i my 951 and it makes 4 bar Pressur. No kiding.
The spec for teh S2 are 3.8 bar +- 0.2 bar that makes from 3.6 to 4.0 bar as it is ijn my car.
so if you use the 3.0 bar instead of a 3.8 bar in a S2 it is like using a 1.9 Bar FPR in the 951.
if you don't believe me check teh tech data for teh S2.-
bTW I am talking of a bone stock 951 86 and a bone stock 944S2 The differenc efrom 0-125 MPH is 4 sec and if you drive faster is much more.
I live in Germany where speeding from 60 to 140 mph is an everyday and very usual game. believe me there is no way to winn with a S2 since it has from 2000 to 6000 rpm Less torque. less HP and more weight. aS2 barely get to 240 Km but every non chipped 951 get up to 252-257 km/h. Even the 0-62 time are 6.3 VS 7.1 sec
Unless you find a broken 951 there is no way that you win. And yes the number that Porsche gives are real. Every car that tested here meet the 0-60 and th 1/4 times. Some of them are even faster.
It must be due to teh higher weight for the US cars or the drivers or whatever but every single test on every magazine had these number for the 951 or S2 or 968 etc.

Konstantin

951and944S

[quote] Doesn't the S2 have a 3-bar FPR as stock? <hr></blockquote>

Yes, that's what's confusing me here.
I've never experienced a "flat spot" in any S I've ever driven.
To the contrary, at 4000 revs, the car really takes off, due to the cylinder heads efficientcy, it really starts "breathing" at 4000 revs..

Another note, the S/S2 fuel pump has higher output than the turbo, and makes a great donor for a 951 upgrade..

Konstantin

actually the S2 is only a little beter than the 951. You nedd the 928 pump
and the S2 has 3.8 Bar FPR the 3.0 Bar are at idle only. The 951 has a 2.5 bar FPR and 2.0 Bar at Idle.

I think now it is clear.

Konstantin