Need advice for racecar engine.
08-12-2011, 05:00 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
John at Vitesse is great second-hand as far as knowledge and advice goes, but you need to make sure you get absolutely everything (hardware/software/documentation) from the previous owner if buying used. Yes he will charge you for stuff that's missing if you want it. But he's always been quick to respond to emails and offer help if you have all the stuff. Granted I only moved from Vitesse to Wolf because I wanted the flexibility of a standalone.
With your budget, you should look at Rogue Tuning's A-Tune (their AFM chip).
08-12-2011, 09:56 AM
#17
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Assuming your car is up to date on the maintenance. With the budget you have, there are a few choices which will yield decent results and can be reused if you decide to make further mods.
For track use, a test pipe will make a good difference, if you can fabricate your own even better. Good boost control, a dual port WG and/or a more controllable boost management (via CV or MBC).
Since you already have a aftermarket chip and a 3bar FPR, put them to use. Get a Wideband system to monitor AFRs, then fine tune the AFRs to match your car 100%. Tuning to match your car yields the best results.
As far as going to a MAF setup, it will help, however with the MAF you MUST upgrade other items. After examining numerous MotronicMonitor data logs, we determined that it is unsafe to run with the stock injectors as they will be at a very high duty cycle. On the street "maybe" you can get away with it. On the track, I wouldn't do it. As far as I know there is no one else that offers a system such as the MotronicMonitor where you can see ALL the variables as seen by the DME, including the injectors duty cycle. So if you go MAF, plan on other upgrades.
The K26 you have now is the main restriction in the system. Once you go over 15.5-16psi, you are generating heat. Some run a bit more boost to get a kick on the street, but on the track, it just adds to the IC heat soak. Well, maybe you can keep a few bags of ice on the Intake to keep it cool, the same as some do before a dyno pull LOL.
Given what you already have and the budget you are working with, I would start with the following items: test-pipe, Wideband, use the chip you have and the 3bar FPR, address boost management and clean up the AFRs (I know of the tool you need for both fine tuning and boost control
).
You will keep most of these items if you chose to upgrade in the future.
The location of the AFM is fine, it draws cool air from the fender. However if you want to move things around, you can place it in front of the turbo via a custom J-pipe (tight fit, lots of custom work). Or you can install it between the IC and the TB, again more custom piping, and you'll need to address the AFRs a bit.
In response to your comment regarding support and used components. As a policy, support is offered for free to the original owner. Having said that, I spend just as much time supporting second and third hand owners as I spend supporting original owners (all for free). Many are here on this board as well.
When it comes to supporting used products, it's impossible for us to know the condition or the completeness of the parts in a system. Not to mention some components are sold as Vitesse parts, and in reality some are knock-off or never supplied by Vitesse.
So if you get a used system make sure you have the "complete setup" including the instructions. Some of which is unique per setup! If you are set on a MAF conversion, take a look at the V-MAF+ our latest MAF offering. I might have a used MAF setup if you want to go that route, but you'll need injectors which will put you over your budget.
Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions.
For track use, a test pipe will make a good difference, if you can fabricate your own even better. Good boost control, a dual port WG and/or a more controllable boost management (via CV or MBC).
Since you already have a aftermarket chip and a 3bar FPR, put them to use. Get a Wideband system to monitor AFRs, then fine tune the AFRs to match your car 100%. Tuning to match your car yields the best results.
As far as going to a MAF setup, it will help, however with the MAF you MUST upgrade other items. After examining numerous MotronicMonitor data logs, we determined that it is unsafe to run with the stock injectors as they will be at a very high duty cycle. On the street "maybe" you can get away with it. On the track, I wouldn't do it. As far as I know there is no one else that offers a system such as the MotronicMonitor where you can see ALL the variables as seen by the DME, including the injectors duty cycle. So if you go MAF, plan on other upgrades.
The K26 you have now is the main restriction in the system. Once you go over 15.5-16psi, you are generating heat. Some run a bit more boost to get a kick on the street, but on the track, it just adds to the IC heat soak. Well, maybe you can keep a few bags of ice on the Intake to keep it cool, the same as some do before a dyno pull LOL.
Given what you already have and the budget you are working with, I would start with the following items: test-pipe, Wideband, use the chip you have and the 3bar FPR, address boost management and clean up the AFRs (I know of the tool you need for both fine tuning and boost control
). You will keep most of these items if you chose to upgrade in the future.
The location of the AFM is fine, it draws cool air from the fender. However if you want to move things around, you can place it in front of the turbo via a custom J-pipe (tight fit, lots of custom work). Or you can install it between the IC and the TB, again more custom piping, and you'll need to address the AFRs a bit.
In response to your comment regarding support and used components. As a policy, support is offered for free to the original owner. Having said that, I spend just as much time supporting second and third hand owners as I spend supporting original owners (all for free). Many are here on this board as well.
When it comes to supporting used products, it's impossible for us to know the condition or the completeness of the parts in a system. Not to mention some components are sold as Vitesse parts, and in reality some are knock-off or never supplied by Vitesse.
So if you get a used system make sure you have the "complete setup" including the instructions. Some of which is unique per setup! If you are set on a MAF conversion, take a look at the V-MAF+ our latest MAF offering. I might have a used MAF setup if you want to go that route, but you'll need injectors which will put you over your budget.
Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions.
08-13-2011, 02:38 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
I have no idea what the IP1 class rules are, but if you want to cross the border sometimes you should check out the ST class in Conference. http://www.race-st.com/ Conference does 2-3 races a year at Mission plus Pacific, Portland, Spokane and ORP. The class has a 10:1 power to weight limit and a 951 can make that pretty easily. A 968 with a 951 engine can be competitive in it. 
You can spend your money racing instead of chasing mega horsepower in ITE.
You can spend your money racing instead of chasing mega horsepower in ITE.
08-13-2011, 05:15 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
In deciding to build a race car one of the first things you need to do is decide on sanctioning body and class. If you stay in PCA you can race in the stock classes and be competitive, or you can do modifications that take you out of class like a modified fuel metering system like LR, Vitesse, or Rogue Ant that will place you in the GT3 grouping. The 2.5 l engine cars can be stripped pretty clean and you will remain in GT3. If you go to the NASA GTS group then it is about weight to horsepower and modifications to the block are fairly open.
But decide how and what you want to race first prior to modding your car. Then determine what gives you most bang for the buck, i.e. engine mods or aero.
But decide how and what you want to race first prior to modding your car. Then determine what gives you most bang for the buck, i.e. engine mods or aero.
