Ski

Well the time is here next month to get the "further than I expected" rebuild done. It is a 75k original car but as I added things to the list we(myself and mechanic, who I get to assist) decided to drop the engine and do it all the way, the right way.

Got all the bearings; main & rod, oil pan gasket(which started all of this),crank will be sent out to check balance and polish, Wide Fire & complete gaskets, speed/reference sensors, temp and DME sensors, rod nuts, new rings, will thermal coat top of pistons when they come out, Sachs cup clutch kit, TO bearing, needle bearing, CV jt grease, new water pump, all belts and hardware. New LR P&P Stage II head, new Stage I Turbo, new 52# injectors. O-rings, studs/nuts are in the shop.
New dist/rotor, wires, plugs, wastegate w/manual controller, upgraded intercooler and pipes, hoses & vaccum lines, AFPR; 6 months ago.

Anybody find anything in their rebuild damaged, unexpected, or "I should have replaced that now that I think about it" that I missed. I don't think I can hide anymore money from my "boost control",,,LOL!

Danno

How about a bigger turbo? Once you get a taste of speed, you'll want more...

Ski

I would but I'll start here. I still have to fund a college fund and keep that retirement fund going for us "older lovers of speed" HA!

But I do plan on using good copper coat never seize, maybe that will make it easy to ahhh,,, upgrade in the near future.

rage2

I think you're missing a device/chips to ensure proper fueling for the 52# injectors.

Wachuko

Wow, I read stuff like this and I hate the fact that I am away from friends that work with engines all day... if I was back home I would not think twice to drop the engine (or raise it) and rebuild it...

My engine is fine but since there is always that feeling of "if I did not had it done or done it myself it can fail any minute..."

I do not have the courage that Ribs has...

I have the car on four towers, changed the A-Arms. I have the Turbo I ordered from SFR, the adjustable FPR, exhaust, and other stuff (still waiting on the chips) ready to get installed... I have the rear main seal to replace, so that means getting all the stuff out (clutch, transmission...) and more and more I want to do what you are doing Ski.

Anyway... Good luck in your project... maybe in a month you will be reading my posts on my engine rebuild <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

Ski

Yeah,,I was going to get it done, do some break in with dino oil, go to the dyno and see where the lean spot is. I have stage II now. I may try to get APE to do a custom set with readings after the dyno run, maybe switch the fuel/timing setting on the DME;I'm going to stay with factroy computers. I'm just hoping to get the 285-300 range, with good A/F numbers. But I may look into one of the timing/fuel devices.

Ski

Jaime, which chips are you getting?

Wachuko

I ordered everything from SFR... so SFR chips. Do not know the specs on those. Here is the list of what I got from SFR:

SFR 3" Cat-back exhaust (looks real nice, but still sitting in the dinning area, wife is not happy <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> )
Some crush rings
SFR Level 2 Turbo with 8 hot side
Adjustable FPR
SFR chips

If you are doing the rebuild and can spare the cash, try changing the down pipe for one from SFR... better flow. Whenever I decide to drop/raise the engine it is on my list of stuff to replace. If I ever get to install the new turbo I will probably just do it... I need to take it easy on the wallet, this stuff is super addictive... The good thing that I like about SFR it is that everything works together. I do not have to worry about putting stuff that will later end up being incompatible.


For the chips, I suggest you call Tim for the specs.

Can you share a breakdown of the costs?

For example: getting the head done? From where?

"Crank will be sent out to check balance and polish" Will you do the cross drilling I read so much about? Again, from where?

More and more I think I will take this on shortly... just saw the post with a lot of photos of a #2 rod bearing and that scares the @#$ out of me. All information you can share is welcome.

The reason for all my worries is that my car will very soon become my daily driver and I can't afford to be stranded on the road. I need to get it to top shape as soon as possible ($$ permitting of course)

Ski

I've got Tims 3" complete exhaust but I bought a used down pipe and had it Jet Hot coated inside and out, along with the outside of the intake manifold; it looks great. I was planning on wrapping the hot side of the turbo with some smaller sheets of turbo wrap that is used on 16 cylinder EMD(train)engines. It has great thermal protection properties but that was all I am going to wrap.

Your right, it is addictive. Danno is probably right about getting bigger turbo but this one will have to do.

Ski

I should have posted this above but here are parts breakdown:

The head and turbo FREE
Xmas gift - honest

Wide Fire Gasket w/complete gaskets 175
Main bearings 103
Rod Bearings 39
Gasket set, lower engine 118
Speed/Reference sensor(s) 2@79 158
Rings 87
Rod nuts 16
CV grease 8
Guide tube 18
Throw out bearing 15
Needle bearings 12
Sport Disc 307
small stuff in the shop ??

We are working out the labor now.....

John Anderson

I think you all are missing the most important upgrade item available!

Our mechanic has access to the unbelievable and super powerfull....yes, the myth has come true! Its the..

The ...

Malgameter Valve!

It controlls boost, prevents your head from evr blowing a gasket, keeps the tires inflated at all times, extends your mile per gallon to 60mpg, and it calls into the office with a great excuse everytime you ditch the grind to do a days fishing :-)

Just kidding, but I would love to hbuild something like that!

Steve Lavigne

I did a similar job recently and here is what I think you are missing (these are not included in the upper or lower end gasket kit):

Upper and lower turbo o-rings
Turbo oil return line to block sealing rings (2)
Upper balance shaft/turbo oil intake line sealing rings (2)
Oil return line o-ring to block
Oil dipstick o-ring
Exhaust system fasteners

You may want to consider some Raceware or Garrity head studs.

Of course, the two most critical things to this job is a case of Fat Tire Amber Ale (especially if it for your mechanic) and a Malgameter Valve as John Anderson mentioned!

BTW John, if you can get me one of these whimsical magical Malgameter Valves, I will buy a 3.1 liter motor, intercooler, wastegate, efi, etc. from you!

<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Ski

Malgameter Valve,,,hmmmm have to wait for the "chimp" to test that.

All the o-rings, snap rings, copper gaskets should be at the shop. The new turbo has all the fittings and o-rings in the kit.

and,,,yes the Ale will be visited but at the end of the day and really celebrate on a smooth start up.

The car is a late 87 production, should have the improved baffle in the pan. I noticed that Powerhaus has modified pc in their pan and pick up for $295 exchange. Anybody have this and is it worth it? I don't auto-X the car but I might in the near future. But there are some great curves around the lake shoreline where I live.....

Wachuko

Ski,
Every little bit helps, but I do not think it is worth the 295.00

There was a post from Huntley Racing that I found extremely interesting. That is why I asked if you were going to cross drill the crankshaft. Here is a the post from Derrek.

"Huntley Racing had done a lot of research over the years into EXACTLY why 944 cars spin rod bearings. What we found out over several years of searching was that there is much more miss-information that actual facts. First we found that whether in a track car, streetcar or even a weekend show car all 944 based cars including the 968 can spin a rod bearing. Second this has nothing to do with HP or TQ. Third it has nothing to do with uncovering the oil pick-up (This is a common miss-conception promoted by many many shops). Forth is that extra oil, like a half quart over the dipstick, does nothing. Fifth the Accusump and other systems don't fix this issue (other possible problems yes, but not the common rod bearing failures). Sixth no matter how many baffles you have put in your pan they will not help. I can go on and on but to get to the 'meat' of the matter....
What causes rod-bearing failures is 99% of the time centrifugal force. We found the solution to the mystery in an uncommon place, the Chevy world. It turns out a Chevy motor has the same problem, the 454 big block. Chevy 454 big blocks, which were designed for lower RPM operation, later became popular for drag racers. The drag racers started to turn more and more rpm's in search of more HP, which resulted in a 'new' problem developing, spun rod bearings. It took years to figure out why. The reason turned out to be so basic that the likes of Chevy and Porsche simply 'missed' it.

As a crankshaft rotates it has many forces acting upon it. It is obvious that the pistons push on the rods, which push on the crank and so forth and so on. What was missed was centrifugal force acting on the oil within the crank. High-pressure oil is fed thru the center of the crank to the main and rod bearings. Oil passing thru each journal is forced out of the crank onto the surface of the bearing thru the oil feed, which is nothing more than a hole in the surface of the journal. Where the 'mistake' was made was in the placement of the hole. The single oil feed hole can be drilled at any point 360 deg around on the journal, this is a decision dictated during the production of the crank. When the 944 crank design was made there was no attention given to the placement of this hole and the effect centrifugal force might have on the oil within it. Where the feed was placed just so happens to be one nearly opposite the direction centrifugal force pulls the oil when the crank is in motion. As the RPMs increase the centrifugal force goes up, eventually to the point where the oil pumps pressure simply can't overcome it. When this happens the rod bearings are starved of oil. The reason more track cars have this failure is because they are at high RPMs more often and for longer periods of time. Also track cars tend to have relatively high oil temperatures which thins the oil and causes the oil pressure to drop which lowers the RPM point where oil starvation at the rod bearings occurs. Further the high RPMs and often overfilled oil pans (to supposedly save the rod bearings) cause high windage that aerates the oil, further reducing its lubricating potential. Older motors spin rod bearings more often than newer motors since they have had more high RPM time than new motors and they usually have less oil pressure. Baffles, Accusumps, overfilling etc... do nothing to stop this failure mode.

Cross-drilling came out several years ago as a remedy for this issue but not because the problem was understood but because the idea was that a second oil feed hole would add more oil. There was a positive benefit from crossdrilling. The new oil feed opposite the original oil feed was not either hurt or helped by centrifugal force due to its position. This meant that the oil pump could generally keep up with the oiling needs of the rod bearings. Huntley Racing however took the cross-drilling to the next level and developed the Perp drilled crank. We perpendicularly bore a new feed into the rod journal, which is actually taking the nemesis, 'centrifugal force' and working with it to help to actually scavenge oil to the rod bearing as the RPMs go up!! Since we have machined cranks with this technique we have 'NEVER' had a rod bearing failure in any car, ever! We started offering these in 1998.

This subject and its relevance to the 944 world is obvious but it is only one of many possible failures, which can and do occur to these cars. Cars that suffer rod failure generally can trace this to the above mentioned rod bearing problem as the catalyst. Main bearings generally don’t have this problem simply because they are centrally located on the centerline of the crank and have a much smaller ‘arm’ to their outer diameter which makes them far less susceptible to oil starvation from centrifugal force

--------------------

Derrek H. Khajavi
Huntley Racing
Porsche Performance,
and Racing Design,
Development, Fabrication,
Manufactuing, and Sales.
'We Sell Horsepower!!'
M-F 8AM to 5PM Pacific
619-448-3800 Voice
619-448-3804 FAX
<a href="http://www.huntleyracing.com"" target="_blank">www.huntleyracing.com"</a>

Ski

Thanks Jaime, I will certainly discuss this with Tom.