Rothman's Turbo Cup
02-01-2002, 04:52 PM
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Hi,
A little background first, my name is Dan and I'm the other Porsche sales consultant with Norden in Edmonton. I've been with Norden for a total of 7 years, starting in their detail bay. I have know this car for many years.
Norden acquired the Turbo Cup race car in 1988 for one of our customers upon the conclusion of the Rothman's Cup race series. The car was indeed a "spare car" and was never actually used in the race series. In the mid-90s, it was sold to another long term customer of ours. He sold this car to us just over a year ago. IT HAS NOT been sitting outside for two or three years!
This car is a two owner car. It currently has 14500km (9000miles) on the odometer. it is a fully street legal, factory prepped race car. it sounds like the car GeorgeK described above is almost identical to ours. This car has been used on occasiopn in PCA wevents by the previous owner. Other than that, it has never seen use on a race course. We have the factory exhaust system and thwe 4" Walker race exhaust that was used in the Rothman's Cup series.
This car is Guards Red in colour. And yes, it is still Guards Red! Although the car does remain outside, it is not "faded orange" as Doug seems to think. For a 14 year old Red car with no clear coat, I think the paint is in amazing shape! It is routinely detailed to keep the finish in an appropriate condition. With a quick hand glaze applied, the paint still looks new. I used to be a detailer, and I know what I'm talking about. This isn't just salesman bull****. There are a few rock chips on the nose, but nothing major. It has never been hit or repainted in any way. The wheels on the car are the original phone dial wheels. They are still bright white in colour. There are no signs of aging or yellowing on this wheels. Once again, someone has been misinformed.
This car is still available for sale. if anyone has any questions about the car, feel free to email me at dan_j_clark@hotmail.com. Or through nordenvw@telusplanet.net. I can provide many detailed photos of this car if you wish to see them. We have all documentation fdor this car, and the Rothman's Race series.
A little background first, my name is Dan and I'm the other Porsche sales consultant with Norden in Edmonton. I've been with Norden for a total of 7 years, starting in their detail bay. I have know this car for many years.
Norden acquired the Turbo Cup race car in 1988 for one of our customers upon the conclusion of the Rothman's Cup race series. The car was indeed a "spare car" and was never actually used in the race series. In the mid-90s, it was sold to another long term customer of ours. He sold this car to us just over a year ago. IT HAS NOT been sitting outside for two or three years!
This car is a two owner car. It currently has 14500km (9000miles) on the odometer. it is a fully street legal, factory prepped race car. it sounds like the car GeorgeK described above is almost identical to ours. This car has been used on occasiopn in PCA wevents by the previous owner. Other than that, it has never seen use on a race course. We have the factory exhaust system and thwe 4" Walker race exhaust that was used in the Rothman's Cup series.
This car is Guards Red in colour. And yes, it is still Guards Red! Although the car does remain outside, it is not "faded orange" as Doug seems to think. For a 14 year old Red car with no clear coat, I think the paint is in amazing shape! It is routinely detailed to keep the finish in an appropriate condition. With a quick hand glaze applied, the paint still looks new. I used to be a detailer, and I know what I'm talking about. This isn't just salesman bull****. There are a few rock chips on the nose, but nothing major. It has never been hit or repainted in any way. The wheels on the car are the original phone dial wheels. They are still bright white in colour. There are no signs of aging or yellowing on this wheels. Once again, someone has been misinformed.
This car is still available for sale. if anyone has any questions about the car, feel free to email me at dan_j_clark@hotmail.com. Or through nordenvw@telusplanet.net. I can provide many detailed photos of this car if you wish to see them. We have all documentation fdor this car, and the Rothman's Race series.
02-01-2002, 05:01 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Doug Pell:
<strong>
Randy the dealership sales guy did have a very nice 1990 944 Turbo, Navy & linen, low mileage but it has gone to BC now.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
As a side note, this 1990 Turbo S is available. As you know, this was a very limited car (only 47 built!)and currently has about 80000km on it. As Doug said, it is a gorgeous car! The colour is Baltic Blue, with the Linen Grey leather interior.
<strong>
Randy the dealership sales guy did have a very nice 1990 944 Turbo, Navy & linen, low mileage but it has gone to BC now.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
As a side note, this 1990 Turbo S is available. As you know, this was a very limited car (only 47 built!)and currently has about 80000km on it. As Doug said, it is a gorgeous car! The colour is Baltic Blue, with the Linen Grey leather interior.
02-01-2002, 05:10 PM
#18
Dan's description and comments are right on the spot. These cars are not for the poseur, but for the true enthusiast who has more appreciation for the effort put in the car than for shiny paint. As a street car, it is hopeless. The setup is stiff, the bucket a real pain, not to mention the cage that requires a reverse bending knee to get in the car. And no AC with all the glass...
But then, for early morning blasts or track work, they are hard to beat. There may be more powerful 951s around, but this version has always been praised for its balance, where every part complements the rest.It would be a sin to modify one from its original condition.
I know why I bought one.
BTW Kelly Moss has a pair for sale I think.
You can check also the site <a href="http://www.asarus.com" target="_blank">www.asarus.com</a> too, there are more Cup cars there, including the red one with the 968 wing, and mine.
Regards, GeorgeK
But then, for early morning blasts or track work, they are hard to beat. There may be more powerful 951s around, but this version has always been praised for its balance, where every part complements the rest.It would be a sin to modify one from its original condition.
I know why I bought one.
BTW Kelly Moss has a pair for sale I think.
You can check also the site <a href="http://www.asarus.com" target="_blank">www.asarus.com</a> too, there are more Cup cars there, including the red one with the 968 wing, and mine.
Regards, GeorgeK
02-01-2002, 08:14 PM
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I'm going to have to agree with Doug Pell on the condition of the car. I was in Edmonton five months ago on business and had a chance to see this car. It was a big disappointment, it didn't look like a less than 9000 mile car. My rep who lives in Edmonton told me the car is always outdoors, rain, snow and shine, and it definitely looks like it. What a shame!
Nevertheless, I'm sure there are people out there that would be more than happy to spend US$40,000 for this car.
Nevertheless, I'm sure there are people out there that would be more than happy to spend US$40,000 for this car.
02-02-2002, 01:27 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Jay-P:
<strong>I'm going to have to agree with Doug Pell on the condition of the car. I was in Edmonton five months ago on business and had a chance to see this car. It was a big disappointment, it didn't look like a less than 9000 mile car. My rep who lives in Edmonton told me the car is always outdoors, rain, snow and shine, and it definitely looks like it. What a shame!
Nevertheless, I'm sure there are people out there that would be more than happy to spend US$40,000 for this car. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you sure you were looking at the right car? Around the time you were here, we had a 1987 944 Turbo in Guards Red that was not in great shape. That car definitely needed paint work.
The paint on the Turbo Cup is fine. Not 100%, but it looks good.
And of course the car is left outside. We don't have the facilities to park every Porsche in our inventory indoors. Not many Canadian dealers do. As long as it is routinely driven and cleaned/detailed (which we do), then parking outdoors shouldn't be an issue.
<strong>I'm going to have to agree with Doug Pell on the condition of the car. I was in Edmonton five months ago on business and had a chance to see this car. It was a big disappointment, it didn't look like a less than 9000 mile car. My rep who lives in Edmonton told me the car is always outdoors, rain, snow and shine, and it definitely looks like it. What a shame!
Nevertheless, I'm sure there are people out there that would be more than happy to spend US$40,000 for this car.
</strong><hr></blockquote>Are you sure you were looking at the right car? Around the time you were here, we had a 1987 944 Turbo in Guards Red that was not in great shape. That car definitely needed paint work.
The paint on the Turbo Cup is fine. Not 100%, but it looks good.
And of course the car is left outside. We don't have the facilities to park every Porsche in our inventory indoors. Not many Canadian dealers do. As long as it is routinely driven and cleaned/detailed (which we do), then parking outdoors shouldn't be an issue.
02-02-2002, 03:33 PM
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Did not mean to ruffel you feathers, but I stand by my opinion of the car.
The cars did not come with a clear coat and a really good rub probably would do wonders, but I have not seen it done to this car. I come up to Edmonton from Calgary once or twice a month. I have met you while in visiting Randy or purchasing goods. The car has always been out side during all my visits. Before you took possesion the paint looked the same so I figure it was in the sun for extended periods before it came to sit on your lot. I beleive you obtained the car in the fall of 1999 or atleast 2000 so it has been out side for a couple years. Norden moved into a new building, I never saw any "used" cars stored inside,the old building, always in the back pen. The new building maybe larger but I believe I am mistaken if the cars are stored inside now. So I would still say this car has been out side for the last two years at least.
It is also 14 years old as you mentioned but there are other cars out there with 100,000 miles on them that look brand new and have not been repainted. I stated it is a unique car, I feel it is a shame to see it in it's current state. I last saw the car December 4th, 2001. It was snowing and minus 10 or so, It was sitting out side. I do not question the mileage, but I can not see how it came to look like this if it has been inside for it's life.
The wheels where not Shiny white last time I saw them. They probably should not be anyway as heat will probably yellow them. A former Porsche mechanic of the old Dealership here in Calgary stated "The rims turned yellow from a reaction from the magneseum and heat" Maybe I am incorrect and they where only dirty.
Oh, and no, I was not looking at the other guards red turbo with the tan interior and telephone dials you had around the same time. Those rims need refreshing as well.
I am sorry, but if you consider this car detailed I would never let you near my car. Using a snow blower is not detailing or either is a high pressure hose.
Yes, my car maybe a Garage Queen, But when it is out it is driven at speed. Yes, it is not driven year round and thus the mileage is only 58,000 kilometers. I am the second owner but the first knew the car was special and he stored it during the winter as well. It is # 43 of the 47 1990 turbos NA speced. I does have rock chips, but at 200 plus k a big bumble bee can chip or dent.
I have assisted prepping a best in class winning Concour car for PCA Parade and thus my standards are very high. I am not trying to slight you.
A dealership does not have the time or resources to spend countless hours on a car for sale. I do not consider the detailers in Calgary to do a good job, there is always wax left over everywhere among other things.
I am tied of salesmen and sellers stating "excellent", "like new" and the seeing a beat up piece of junk. (No I am not saying this about the Rothman's car).
I have spent a few thousand dollars to go look at cars supposedly in excellent shape only to fly home disappointed. i.e from Atlanta, Georgia where the dearlership was blind...
I will drop it now,
just my .02,
not intending any flaming, I just do not see through rose coloured glasses any more...
I do not know what these cars have been fetching for prices. I do know what the 90's have been going for.
Doug Pell
The cars did not come with a clear coat and a really good rub probably would do wonders, but I have not seen it done to this car. I come up to Edmonton from Calgary once or twice a month. I have met you while in visiting Randy or purchasing goods. The car has always been out side during all my visits. Before you took possesion the paint looked the same so I figure it was in the sun for extended periods before it came to sit on your lot. I beleive you obtained the car in the fall of 1999 or atleast 2000 so it has been out side for a couple years. Norden moved into a new building, I never saw any "used" cars stored inside,the old building, always in the back pen. The new building maybe larger but I believe I am mistaken if the cars are stored inside now. So I would still say this car has been out side for the last two years at least.
It is also 14 years old as you mentioned but there are other cars out there with 100,000 miles on them that look brand new and have not been repainted. I stated it is a unique car, I feel it is a shame to see it in it's current state. I last saw the car December 4th, 2001. It was snowing and minus 10 or so, It was sitting out side. I do not question the mileage, but I can not see how it came to look like this if it has been inside for it's life.
The wheels where not Shiny white last time I saw them. They probably should not be anyway as heat will probably yellow them. A former Porsche mechanic of the old Dealership here in Calgary stated "The rims turned yellow from a reaction from the magneseum and heat" Maybe I am incorrect and they where only dirty.
Oh, and no, I was not looking at the other guards red turbo with the tan interior and telephone dials you had around the same time. Those rims need refreshing as well.
I am sorry, but if you consider this car detailed I would never let you near my car. Using a snow blower is not detailing or either is a high pressure hose.
Yes, my car maybe a Garage Queen, But when it is out it is driven at speed. Yes, it is not driven year round and thus the mileage is only 58,000 kilometers. I am the second owner but the first knew the car was special and he stored it during the winter as well. It is # 43 of the 47 1990 turbos NA speced. I does have rock chips, but at 200 plus k a big bumble bee can chip or dent.
I have assisted prepping a best in class winning Concour car for PCA Parade and thus my standards are very high. I am not trying to slight you.
A dealership does not have the time or resources to spend countless hours on a car for sale. I do not consider the detailers in Calgary to do a good job, there is always wax left over everywhere among other things.
I am tied of salesmen and sellers stating "excellent", "like new" and the seeing a beat up piece of junk. (No I am not saying this about the Rothman's car).
I have spent a few thousand dollars to go look at cars supposedly in excellent shape only to fly home disappointed. i.e from Atlanta, Georgia where the dearlership was blind...
I will drop it now,
just my .02,
not intending any flaming, I just do not see through rose coloured glasses any more...
I do not know what these cars have been fetching for prices. I do know what the 90's have been going for.
Doug Pell
02-02-2002, 07:52 PM
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Posted by iamsuperdan:
[quote] Are you sure you were looking at the right car? <hr></blockquote>
Oh I'm positive. It's hard to miss the racing bucket seat, roll cage, and the 2 black side mirrors.
Posted by iamsuperdan:
[quote] And of course the car is left outside. We don't have the facilities to park every Porsche in our inventory indoors. <hr></blockquote>
That, sir, is truly a shame! Considering the rarity, that car belongs indoors. When I saw that car, I felt sorry for it.
Posted by iamsuperdan:
[quote] parking outdoors shouldn't be an issue. <hr></blockquote>
Anyone that owns a 944, or a 928 for that matter, knows what the sun and the elements can do to the paint, dashboard, and hatch after prolonged exposure.
I hope my post doesn't offend you in any way Dan, as it wasn't meant to.
[quote] Are you sure you were looking at the right car? <hr></blockquote>
Oh I'm positive. It's hard to miss the racing bucket seat, roll cage, and the 2 black side mirrors.
Posted by iamsuperdan:
[quote] And of course the car is left outside. We don't have the facilities to park every Porsche in our inventory indoors. <hr></blockquote>
That, sir, is truly a shame! Considering the rarity, that car belongs indoors. When I saw that car, I felt sorry for it.
Posted by iamsuperdan:
[quote] parking outdoors shouldn't be an issue. <hr></blockquote>
Anyone that owns a 944, or a 928 for that matter, knows what the sun and the elements can do to the paint, dashboard, and hatch after prolonged exposure.
I hope my post doesn't offend you in any way Dan, as it wasn't meant to.
02-03-2002, 03:22 PM
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No offence taken guys, but in all seriousness, the car is not as bad as it's been made out to be.
All of our pre-owned Porsches are left outdoors. As I've said, even with our new facilities, we simply don't have the room to keep all of our cars indoors. Our showroom holds 6 new cars, and our shop area does not have the room for storage. Which is too bad because I would love to be able to keep all of our cars indoors.
Our pre-owned cars are run at least once every two weeks, and if the roads are clear, they're are taken for a quick 5km drive. They are cleaned once a week, and once a month a thourough cleaning is done if necessary.
As with the detail departments of most dealerships, good help is very hard to find. Over the past year, we have had a massive turnover rate with our detail department. In the last few months, that situation has been remedied. Our detail staff right now is very good, and our pre-owned cars consistantly look like they should look.
This car is not perfect. But it is better than 6/10. I would rate it at an 8/10. Myself, if I owned it, I would repaint the entire car. The paint is good but it is not perfect.
Anyway, we're beating a dead horse here. Everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes a car in "great" condition. We see that all the time when people ask us to appraise their "excellent" Porsche for a trade in value!
I stand by my beliefs, as do you. I think we can both agree that this is a pretty special car, that needs the attention an owner can give.
All of our pre-owned Porsches are left outdoors. As I've said, even with our new facilities, we simply don't have the room to keep all of our cars indoors. Our showroom holds 6 new cars, and our shop area does not have the room for storage. Which is too bad because I would love to be able to keep all of our cars indoors.
Our pre-owned cars are run at least once every two weeks, and if the roads are clear, they're are taken for a quick 5km drive. They are cleaned once a week, and once a month a thourough cleaning is done if necessary.
As with the detail departments of most dealerships, good help is very hard to find. Over the past year, we have had a massive turnover rate with our detail department. In the last few months, that situation has been remedied. Our detail staff right now is very good, and our pre-owned cars consistantly look like they should look.
This car is not perfect. But it is better than 6/10. I would rate it at an 8/10. Myself, if I owned it, I would repaint the entire car. The paint is good but it is not perfect.
Anyway, we're beating a dead horse here. Everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes a car in "great" condition. We see that all the time when people ask us to appraise their "excellent" Porsche for a trade in value!
I stand by my beliefs, as do you. I think we can both agree that this is a pretty special car, that needs the attention an owner can give.
02-03-2002, 03:31 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by aka 951:
<strong>How much for the car?
How original is it?
Thanks</strong><hr></blockquote>
The car is all original, and hasn't had any mods done to it. It currently has the Walker 4" exhaust as used in the Rothamn's Series. We have the original factory exhaust as well.
We'll let the car go for $36000 US.
If you have any other questons, feel free to email me.
dan_j_clark@hotmail.com
<strong>How much for the car?
How original is it?
Thanks</strong><hr></blockquote>
The car is all original, and hasn't had any mods done to it. It currently has the Walker 4" exhaust as used in the Rothamn's Series. We have the original factory exhaust as well.
We'll let the car go for $36000 US.
If you have any other questons, feel free to email me.
dan_j_clark@hotmail.com
02-07-2002, 06:03 PM
#26
What's the difference between the race going Turbo Cups and the Rothmans series? I understand that both were built for racetrack purposes, of which the Turbo S was the street legal version..
Thanks
Thanks
02-07-2002, 06:14 PM
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If you are interested in a real Rothman's Turbo Cup race prepped car. A fellow PCA UCR member has two of his up for sell as well as a 968 Turbo. All of them have fresh engines in them.
Check out the classified section of the the UCR site
<a href="http://www.pcaucr.org" target="_blank">www.pcaucr.org</a>
Check out the classified section of the the UCR site
<a href="http://www.pcaucr.org" target="_blank">www.pcaucr.org</a>
