Bill

Now this is the way this forum should be used!

Designer, product - Tuner, adapt product - Customer, use product - Product, issue - Customer, inform tuner - Tuner, resolve problem - Designer, resolve problem - Product, improved - Customer, satisfied - Tuner, more business - Designer, more business.

Kudos to Anderson Motorworks to see this through.

David Salama

Thanks for clearing that up John. I will not be pulling my strut brace and intake manifold off until I have received the restrictor from you in order to decrease my down time. Thanks again !!

Dave

Bill

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">@Bill
did you had this problem from teh beginning?
I know some 951 with this turbo using the original seal from garet but without the Porsche ring seal. it seems that this is enough. The inner part of the ring (just between the hole and the stock ring) is small about4 mm but it seals ok till now. This is for about 3000 km and full boost.
Did you have the problem only at high boost, or also at idle, did you try without the Porsche seal ring and only the stock Garret gasket?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Konstantin,

My oil leak was not immediate. It developed over time.

I did not install the turbo, that was done at SFR. I do not know if the gasket in the picture was supplied by Garrett, but I think it is unlikely. Where ever it came from, it did not work.

Boost should have no impact on the oil system unless it is getting passed the rings and pressurizing the pan. This is not the case in my motor, 60,000 miles with perfect compression.

This is my first and hopefully only repair. Removing the turbo is not a simple thing to do, so I wanted to assure a fix and not risk just another paper gasket.

I am not recommending that everyone with a Garrett turbo go out, remove their turbos and perform this proceedure. I am not saying that there are no other ways to fix a similar problem.

Mine leaked and this is how I fixed it.

If this saves a fellow 951 owner some headaches, then I will be happy.

John Anderson

High oiling at boost might not be caused from rings at all. When your car is at operating temp, your oil pressure may sit between 2 and 3.5 bar on the average, some slightly higher. But when you rev the engine, the oil pressure jumps up to 4.5 to 5 bar, thats what might be forcing oil through the turbo and causing excess oiling.

Take Care!

Dave E

At full throttle and 210 oil temp on the track, both my previous car and this one show a drop in oil pressure of about 1/2 bar. Any ideas of what might cause this?

John Anderson

That sounds like a ground/load issue. Check and clean all your grounds. I had the same problem on my 951...every time I'd get on the throttle, my guage would make a slight steady drop in pressure of about .5 bar, then when I would let off the gas and coast, the pressure would go right back up, as should be at higher rpms.

Check and clean all grounds.

Take Care

TonyG

There is only ONE correct solution:

That is to contact Tim at SFR. Ask him to machine you a piece of 1/4" aluminum with the new smaller thicker "O" ring receiver grove and new smaller thicker "O" ring.

Then sandwich this in between your motor mount and the turbo.

Keep the stock "O" ring between the motor mount and the new spacer.

The new spacer has the new "O" ring up top (which is smaller and properly fits the Garrett turbo).

The stock turbo mount bolts will fit fine.

Also the cross over pipe, and turbo down pipe will fit with a little muscle.

That little thin metal gasket/paper gasket combo doesn't work for long. The vibration and movement of the turbo destroys the turbo before too long.

Been there, done that. More than once!

TonyG

That drop in oil pressure is normal.

Mine shows that on the factory gauge as well as my mechanical Autometer gauge (but quite 1/2 bar though... it's more like 3-4psi for me).

It's not your sender or the electrical connections.

John Anderson

Its not normal for the oil pressure gauge to show a drop in pressure under load/rpm.

I have seen this in my car and a few 944's, and was able to fix it.

Any time your oil pressure gauge shows a drop in pressure, it should be looked at, and taken care of. It could be a false reading, or it could mean mechanicle trouble.

Take Care!

Dave E

O.K, so which is it, normal or not, John you gave two replies which seem to be contradictory. I plan to check all the grounds anyway, but would worn rod or main bearings cause this? or maybe blowby fighting against oil pressure?(not likely, but I can't think of much that would cause the drop) my intuition/knowledge doesn't point to this. John, when you fixed this on other 944's, what did you find?

TonyG

My last two 951's did the oil pressure drop under load, with hot oil.

My current 951 runs 35 psi at idle hot, and 68psi above about 4000rpms hot (220F oil temp). Cold, the oil pressure exceeds 100psi above 4000rpms (which is nowhere near the capability of the factory gauge)

The thing here is that 99.999% of us with 944 turbos don't have gauges that are accurate enough to measure and easily see this.

The factory gauge is not only inaccurate (proven), but has a very poor resolution (you're unable to read a 2-3psi difference in pressure).

TonyG

And btw, all my readings are with a Autometer mechanical oil pressure and mechanical oil temperature gauge.

No electric senders.

TonyG

I think what John Anderson was referring to was "electrical load" not "engine load".

Bill

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> O.K, so which is it </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">DaveE,

It could be any or all of the above.

This is the problem with trouble shooting over the internet. Skilled mechanics rely on performing tests to locate a mechanical failure. This obiviously can not be done from a computer screen.

What Tony and John have both given you is suggestions based on their experience. Specific vehicles tend to have similar issues ie; 944 - Belts @ 30k, Water Pumps, Motor mounts, #2 Rod bearing, Grounds, Etc. From reading Johns answer, I would persue his line of thought first also and I will explain why.

When I learned mechanics as a hobby (took night classes at a Ford Factory program and hold ASE master tech certificate and Smog License) my instructers ALLWAYS said KISS. Keep it Simple Stupid. When there is a failure, you need to isolate which system it is related to. In your case there are two systems involved, the electrical system (gauge, wiring, sender) and the oil system (oil fluid, oil passages, oil filter,oil pump, bearing clearances, oil pan). You can see how complex it becomes and your issue can be hiding anywhere in the above mentioned systems. The KISS part comes in with you want to start at the end of the easiest system, that is to say if the signal at the gauge is correct, everything BEHIND that is also correct. So as John stated start with the gauge (much easier than pulling the oil pan and rod bearings). 944's are known for bad grounds, so look for the specific ground to the sender and make sure it is in top shape. Maybe you will get lucky and MAJOR effort was not spent in vain, maybe not. If lucky good, if not go on the the next item, check the hots to the gauge, then the sender, then the gauge. If that all checks out the electrical system as it relates to the oil system is fine. Go to on to the much more difficult system, the oil system. Again use the KISS principle. Check your oil level, is it low? because it is low is it uncovering the oil pump during cornering. Is it old and breaking down from the heat and foaming. Chainge the oil....etc...etc.

So now you get an idea why you get two or more answers from people willing to help on this board. It continually perplexes me when someone asks for suggestions on an issue, and gets sideways when an EXACT fix is not given. Mechanical trouble shooting is a step by step science. Sometimes some of the steps can be skipped when TYPICAL symptoms surface, sometimes not. If someone is willing to hang their butt on the line and offer a suggestion, dont bite the hand that feeds you.

I suggest that if you are going to work on complex issues with your car, take some classes. The rennlist has its limitations.

adrial

I think whats key is that Tony G said that the factory 944 oil pressure gauges aren't accurate enough to read the pressure drop, thus saying that if you are seeing the drop with a factory gauge...its probably an issue with the gauge as John said.