I have been looking to buy a 944 turbo for the past year or so and haven't had much luck. The colorado area is in short supply of low milage 951's. However, about two weeks ago I saw a great looking one, guards red with C-2 cup wheels on it. Turns out it has 67000 miles on it..not bad..But the guy is asking $14000 firm, and the book on it is $12k. Also the paint is not perfect, it has slight sun damage(hardly noticeable), a dent in the dash where the passenger air bag is located and it needs new rear tires. The car has no rust and drives like new, the transmission feels perfect, but how am I going to talk this guy down to a fair price?!? With the things that need replaced, it's worth under book value..right?

Any suggestions?!? I really want this car but I can't afford to go into the hole right off the bat.

 

The price is close enough.

 

I promise you, if you don't give him the 14K for it, someone else will. Forget book value on these cars, especially lower mileage examples. In my neck of the woods, (Ohio) that car at 15k would sell quick. Out in California it would sell for 18K. What needs replaced? tires? not even an issue.. you won't fix the dash (too expensive) and the paint probably could be buffed out. It won't last long at 14K, especially if it has had recent and documented maint.. Maybe I better call the guy and ask about it..what was his phone number?

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

 

So you think it's a good deal huh? There are hardly any records at all, which is one problem also, and the guy told me that an employee from a dealer in Denver owned it from new..and when I opened up the glove box to read through the records, they said it was sold in Ohio and had about 7 or 8 services there. I guess I was just thinking of going for an older model so that I could pay about $10k even...then this beauty came along. Thanks for your input.

 

I think you should be able to get that down some. No records is a big hit, and tires($4-500) might be some leverage. If you don't know what the belts are like, you must change them (~$600), as you know. Dealer stamps don't count b/c they aren't specific like the ones on bmw's, so no way to tell if the belt is new. Explain that to him; if he cares about the car after he sells it, maybe he will listen and come down a bit. Call the dealer, see if they can get into the service records and see if this guy is straight with you. The rub is that somebody that doesn't care about belts just might ante up the dough ahead of you. good luck.

Jason

 

I was going to have the car looked over by a local porsche specialist, it's just that I don't know if I want to spend the $150 to have an inspection if the guy is not looking to sell it for a fair price. Like you said, he might just be sitting around waiting for someone who just wants a 951 to throw some $$$ at him..

 

Make him your best offer; all he can do is say NO.

Your pre-inspection of $150 is cheap. That $150 could alert you to thousand(s) of dollars of unknowns. I paid $225 at a dealer and it was the best money spent as far as I was concerned. You stated this was an 89? That means ABS, LSD, 247hp stock, and if the passenger air bag is dented,,there are enough of those around from salvage yards or on ebay for a later fix. Tires and belts,,I'd offer $13k for the car and have my checkbook ready.

 

I'm in Colorado too and purchased my '89 951 locally from the original owner last fall with 75k miles on it. After years of modifying sedans (most recently Audi quattro turbos) to my liking, I decided I wanted a real sports car that wouldn't require chassis, brake, etc,etc upgrades to perform well. I was ready to fly to the SF Bay area to look at 3 (yes, 3!) '89's for sale. Then I picked up an Autotrader and found a new listing of a guards red '89 for sale locally.

Excellent cosmetically, even has the rare sport seats, and drove great. PO put on a K27/MAF/chips/fpr kit from Powerhaus. Car had been driven very little in the past 5 years, as the owner had purchased a 964 turbo. Had it inspected and other than a sunroof that wouldn't lift and some other minor things, it seemed fine.

Well, beware. Though it looked great and had some upgrades, the PO had neglected simple maintenance items. Like the fuel filter was nearly clogged (amazing it ran so well that way), brake fluid was dirty, original cap/rotor, etc. No big deal -- I did a major "tune-up" and even had the belts replaced since it had been 35k miles.

Then, the kicker. Only a few thousand miles later the head gasket began leaking (pressurizing coolant - #4 sealing ring), so I had the head overhauled and a Widefire gasket installed. Evidently not uncommon on these cars, even though it was running only marginally higher than stock boost (14psi) and I didn't see any of the telltale signs of overheating

Plus it's using a lot of oil --like a quart every 400 miles in "normal" street driving and considerably more on the track. Evidently, this is not uncommon on these cars either. The leakdown is ~5% and the head was just refreshed, so I'm thinking the turbo seals. Oh yeah, the afterrun pump was dead when I bought the car so the seals in the that nice relatively new K27 may be fried! (Amazing although I had to add oil after each track session, witnesses saw no smoke from the tailpipe, and it's not leaking!)

Moral of this story - do a thorough inspection and get complete records. Don't be smitten by the test drive. No, I don't have a shop receipt for things like fuel filter and afterrun pump since I did them myself, but I do keep all parts receipts.

Don't let this tale scare you away from these cars, though. Knowing how rare the "S" model is, particularly here in Colorado (I know of only one other, which is a dedicated track car), I'm happy with my purchase. So I had to spend a few thousand more over the purchase price. It will outperform new cars costing 4x as much. One day at a local track last week convinced me I made a good decision. I nearly lapped the Audi turbos present at the end of each session and toyed with an early NSX! I have not driven another car so track-capable from the factory.

Btw, I've found that even at this altitude (6000ft) and with "only" 14psi boost, the knock sensor will retard the timing under hard use on warm days. Could be the timing curves in the APE chips in my car are too aggressive. For this reason, I add 5gal of 101 octane per tank normally and a 50% or higher mix of the good stuff for the track. It's relatively cheap insurance against more head gasket problems.

Also, at this altitude turbo lag is worse than at sea-level, so, if you're looking for a stoplight racer, this is not the car for here. You are also likely to see a few psi less boost here than at sea level. A '90 S2 (n/a, bigger motor, lower final drive ratio) I drove here was definitely more tractable around town, but ran out of steam easily on the freeway.

I would recommend Storz Garage in Denver, who did my head work, to inspect the car. Good luck and let me know if I can help.

Gary
89 951

 

It seem common that the 944 turbo uses a qt of oil for each half hour on the track and for first timers who don't know this I worry.

 

Yeah, my car used almost 2 qts in 150 track miles, but there was no smoke visible! At least I know to add some after each track session. Someone also told me to fill about 1/3qt over the full mark for track use to avoid starving the rod bearings.
Gary
89 951

 

First I'd like to say thanks for all the replies, very helpful. Secondly I was wandering if the 89 is really the way to go if I'm looking to modify. I've heard and read the the "S" models have a laggier spooling turbo that previous and so on. If have any info or tips about that, they would be greatly appreciated. Also I was curious to know what the "sport seats" look like, I thought they were all sport seats...thanks.

 

Sport seats have huge side bolsters. The seats look almost out of proportion.

Garyk, did the inspection discover the things that were bad when you bought it? Turbo water pump, dirty brake fluid, etc? I would think a good inspection would find those things.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Turbo951:
<strong>Also I was curious to know what the "sport seats" look like, I thought they were all sport seats...thanks.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Another thing about the Porsche sport seats is that they are rather narrow in width, especially in the seat backs. I have them in my vehicle and they're fine for me because I'm not a big person. However, "widebody" people find them uncomfortable.

 

Off subject a bit but I'm relocating to Colorado this summer (Glenwood Springs). Is there much activity/ 951 interest in the area? Thanks

Mike

 

Sold my 86 951 for $10K a couple of months ago, 72K miles. Sport seats, perfect interior, new high quality paint, Konis, Fuchs 16s. There are good deals out there.