KSira

Fixing HG and drive is the cheapest and easiest option, but I cannot help thinking that this would be the perfect time to add a big turbo, port the head, add a updated camshaft, and get some serious performance. Rebuilding the complete engine is also an option, but this is so expensive that it will leave me without a track car for one year. FYI engine is stock wit the exception of a chip and mbc.

Any thoughts from the experienced rennlisters?

ChrisJ951

I've just been through an extensive modification of my 951 with a bunch of Lindsey racing parts including series 65 turbo, DP wastegate, Chips, MAF and Fabspeed exhaust only to blow a head gasket and find out I have a cracked cylinder. So I had Lindsey build me a 3 liter short block with my head that I sent them for a level 2 head job. Needless to say, these cars are very expensive, of course I realize I could have gone a less expensive route of buying a used motor, but my eventual plan was to do all the work I did, I just accelerated it by 2 years.

If I were you I would go a MAF (Vitesse and Rogue tuning seem to be the most popular) a dual port wastegate, at least a 3 inch exhaust and a bigger turbo and fuel injectors.

Scott H

This is the hardest part of 951 ownership, knowing where to "draw the line" so to speak. It comes down to what you want from the car, the current condition of the car, how deep your pockets are, and how the car will be used. Keeping a track car running at 18psi is a different ball game to keeping a street car running at 18psi, reliably at least.

I'd say tear the thing down, see what you have to work with, then decide which direction to head. Telling us how you'll use the car and what your expectations are will get you some better responses.

pettybird

what's your budget?

Techno Duck

What exactly are your goals with the car in terms of power, expected reliability, budget and use (track only, dual use street/track)?

There are many opinions on this and some (or many) will disagree with me. But take it from someone who started out with a similar modded car to yours.

Adding a bigger turbo opens a huge can of worm in terms of fuel support and engine management. Depending on the turbo you go with this also includes modifications to the exhaust (uppipe and downpipe) and pretty much needing to go with a MAF based setup which is also $$. Besides for the most part when replacing the turbo the only 'overlapping' part is the intake manifold which takes less than an hour to take off. Basically what i am saying is adding a turbo has alot of basically required supporting mods which really increases cost. And in my opinion turbo replacement is not a 'while your in there' item for the headgasket. Unless of course you are considering just dropping the engine...then you minus well build a stroker 2.8L, building a 3L or putting in a V8... .

Personally, i would just do the headgasket and run the car. That was the 'first stage' of the modifications i did on my car when i bought 3 years ago which was also basically stock except for Autothority chips and a LBE. I did everything in stages, with the first few stages being reliability based things followed by the power mods, followed by more mods to improve reliability.

For anyone who has seen my car in person or followed the work i have done will probably agree i have entered the realm of 'heavily modified'. There have been many times where i had wished i had left the car mostly stock. I wish i would have stopped and left it with the an o-ringed head with widefire gasket, stock 26/6 turbo and MAF.

Just decide how far you want to go with the headwork and what type of gasket you want to use; Cometic, widefire, widefire with o-ringed head..etc. In my opinion, unless you are going for big power #'s i would just do a standard rebuild on the head..your money is better spent elsewhere unless you are looking to get that last 5-10% out of the motor. Besides you will need a cam to take advantage of the increased airflow i think. Depending on the boost you plan on running, go with a stock headgasket or o-ring the head and use the widefire gasket.

KSira

It is a street car, manly used for tracks. My goal would be maximum reliable power without dropping the engine and doing a complete rebuild. The fun choice would be to add a bigger turbo together with a stand alone EMS or MAF to get a engine with better response that does not drop off at the top. My maximum budget would be around 9000$. For this money I'd expect to get a fast and reliable car, otherwise I'l just replace the HG and drive.

What HG is the best choice? And is ARP studs a good upgrade?

Crackership

?????


For that kind of money, you can buy a built engine, and turbo, and MAF, and probably pay someone else to put it all in for you... I would open your favorite spreadsheet program and start calculating the total cost of your options, and see where that leads you.

Do a search in these forums for "head gasket" or "wide fire" or "MLS"... you'll find a lot of opinions, but you'll also find that asking that question usually starts a fight


People around here seem to prefer the Raceware studs, but again, if you search, you'll find differing opinions... I think the consensus is that good studs are a good investment.

good luck!

Darwantae951

This is what you are about to start walking on:

Dr. Dynamics

If the engine does not leak and your mileage is considerably low dont touch the bottom end yet.
Then again, i would do an engine refresh if lots of leaks all over. (1000$ in seals, bearings etc).
Clutch (800-1200)
Full exhaust (sfr 1,600/ lindsey ~1,000) using stock header
Turbo upgrade with t4 option (personnaly prefer sfr options) (~2,000)
Fuel injectors (250)
Wastegate (?)
An ebc ( i like eboost) (300)
Engine management (speak with john or use the flasing softwares)
With whatevers left go to milledge for head. Or lindsey.

KSira

Still in the process of removing the head. Spending all this time alone in the garage gives me lots of time to think. So what do you guys think about the following setup. (Car will be used hard on track days, and driven back and forth)

-SFR GT30R bolt on turbo.
-Raceware studs and stock HG
-M-Tuning or stand alone ems (with new injetors and fuel pump)
-38mm tial WG
-Full 3" exhaust

How much power can i expect from this setup, and would it be wise to add a new cam and/or port the head? I really hate that my car sort of dies after 5000rpm.

EDIT: Is it possible to leave the clutch for now?

KSira

Head is off, looks like the stock 25 year old HG. Never expected it to be such a massive job to remove the head. Some pics for the experts:

User 41221

How good of a driver are you? In stock form, these cars are capable of delivering more performance than most drivers can muster, so if you aren't using the car to it's potential, you will be money ahead going light on the engine mods and focus on the driver and suspension instead. The other thing to consider is that engine mods start the path down a seemingly never ending slope and diminished reliability.

Not trying to bash anyone but there are a LOT of folks on Rennlist (and other forums) that will be quick to spend your money without having actually done it themselves. I have been been playing with 951's a *long* time and can say without reservation that the guys that leave their cars relatively stock are generally the happier owners and are the guys that are doing more driving than wrenching.

KSira

Have done track days for over 10 years now, I still have a lot to learn, but I'd really like a bit more power and a more responsive engine. You have a valid point regarding reliability, and I hope sticking to modest upgrades will give me both the power and reliability that I want. My car is already updated with "go fast around bends" parts.

-KW Competition (torsion bar delete)
-Delrin and alu bushing all over
-Solid trans mount
-AOR gearbox
-968 M030 Sway bars
-Roll bar
-Bucket Seats
-4 and 6 point harness
-60 Rows oil cooler
-265 front and 285 (or 295)Rear, track tires.

User 41221

There are a million ways to spend your money. My suggestions follows below, and is based on my personal experiences from playing with multiple 951's over 15+years. In my opinion, this will be safe, reliable and fun:

Exhaust: 3" Lindsey mild steel system, ceramic coated. Its cheaper and works just as well as SFR. Don't bother with a downtube or crossover pipe unless you know yours are collapsing (its double wall construction, make sure you look it over and confirm they are in good shape). Stick with the stock headers unless you want to bump your overall budget up to take advantage of something different, and I would suggest CEP headers if you just *have* to upgrade them.

Wastegate: Unless you are convinced your WG is in really good shape, go ahead and replace it now. I am running a Lindsey Dual Port, but either a Lindsey or TiAl (real one, not a knock off) will do the job and ultimately cost about the same

Head Gasket: Widefire, and reuse the stock head studs unless yours are bad. Stock studs are fine until you start getting serious mods to the shortblock, imo. By the way, on the subject of o-ringing the head, I prefer to let the headgasket be the weak link on a relatively stock shortblock. I'd rather take out a headgasket instead of putting holes in my pistons if something is going out of whack. Others have different experiences and it comes down to personal preference.

Fun Stuff: Vitesse maf, chipset and Stage II turbo and injectors. Its well matched, reliable and has been around a long time with proven and stable results. I run this myself and have had what I would call "stellar" results. There are plenty of folks that can vouch for this independently from me. I have no experience with any of Rogues products, so I can't comment on them. I have been VERY satisfied with the quality and service from Vitesse and thought it was well worth the money to get something that was tried and true.

Head: Stick with the stock head, it works well enough, especially if you are going to continue driving on the street with the car.

Use the rest of your budget for taking care of routine maintenance items, vaccuum lines, fpr, fuel lines, coolant hoses, etc.

You'll get better than 300rwhp out of this set up at 15lbs of boost with gobs of torque and its as bullet proof as it gets, imo.

Willard Bridgham 3

+3.........