Shimming Wastegate
12-07-2002, 01:00 AM
#1
Instructor
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Shimming Wastegate
Does anyone know if you can run a shimmed wastegate with a boost enhancer.
Would it be worth it if i shimmed my wastegate?
Also are there any hazards to shimming your wastegate? Please help.
Would it be worth it if i shimmed my wastegate?
Also are there any hazards to shimming your wastegate? Please help.
12-08-2002, 03:10 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
There are numerous threads on this topic - do a search and youll have plenty of information. Id post the links, but I dont remember them.
In a nutshell, not only can you run a boost enhanser and a shim the wastegate, you should as each performs different duties.
There are no real hazards.
In a nutshell, not only can you run a boost enhanser and a shim the wastegate, you should as each performs different duties.
There are no real hazards.
12-09-2002, 03:37 AM
#3
porscheman,
the LBE essentially fools the wastegate into thinking that the boost is less than it is, until the boost reaches a preset level (it's not really fooling the wastegate per se, but it'll do for this explanation). after this the LBE begins to open, and the wastegate then begins to regulate boost (more or less in the same way that it does in stock configuration). the net effect of all this is that your turbo spools up faster.
shimming the wastegate increases the pressure needed to open the wastegate, and basically increases the max boost pressure. i believe a side effect of this is that the turbo will spool up a bit quicker as well.
it is possible to increase the max boost pressure using the LBE, basically, by setting it so that it does not open until the boost reaches a higher pressure - in theory, if you set the LBE so high that it never opens (same as disconnecting the air pressure line and blocking the signal to the waste gate i think), then the wastegate will never operate and your car will overboost something shocking.
anyway, the main point of this post was to say that there are obvious hazards to shimming your wastegate - there are always hazards when you modify your car from stock. for that matter, there are always risks involved in doing anything at all (including doing nothing)
.
beyond such inane generalities, shimming the wastegate ==> increasing boost. and common sense will tell you that you can't just keep cranking up the boost and expect nothing to break. specifically, if the boost is too high then you will find that your engine may run lean (especially in high-boost high-rpm conditions), which will lead to detonation (which is bad, in case you hadn't guessed). this is because the stock chips are designed to supply enough fuel for stock boost levels - increased boost requires more fuel, and the stock chips are not programmed to supply this.
people have reported running slightly higher levels of boost on stock chips (some people even run up to 15psi), but my understanding was that it was a bit of a crap shoot and playing with fire to some extent.
if you want to get more power by increasing boost, then it's prolly best to do it properly. at a minimum, get a set of chips and shim your wastegate (LBE optional but prolly recommended). i think this is generally ok up to about 15 psi of boost. beyond that you have to start replacing other bits - this is is well beyond my limited area of knowledge.
talk to danno or travis @ guru racing - everybody has nothing but nice (and then some) things to say about these guys. the guru racing chips are supposed to be the biz - for ~ $250-300 you can get the chips, aa Reliaboost (~ an LBE) and a 3 bar FPR (and some wastegate shims too?), which is an absolute bargain methinks. i plan on doing this as soon as the dosh piles up a bit more.
PS please feel free to correct me, as i am a major n00b, but this is what i have gathered from asking a few people about the exact same thing.
the LBE essentially fools the wastegate into thinking that the boost is less than it is, until the boost reaches a preset level (it's not really fooling the wastegate per se, but it'll do for this explanation). after this the LBE begins to open, and the wastegate then begins to regulate boost (more or less in the same way that it does in stock configuration). the net effect of all this is that your turbo spools up faster.
shimming the wastegate increases the pressure needed to open the wastegate, and basically increases the max boost pressure. i believe a side effect of this is that the turbo will spool up a bit quicker as well.
it is possible to increase the max boost pressure using the LBE, basically, by setting it so that it does not open until the boost reaches a higher pressure - in theory, if you set the LBE so high that it never opens (same as disconnecting the air pressure line and blocking the signal to the waste gate i think), then the wastegate will never operate and your car will overboost something shocking.
anyway, the main point of this post was to say that there are obvious hazards to shimming your wastegate - there are always hazards when you modify your car from stock. for that matter, there are always risks involved in doing anything at all (including doing nothing)
.beyond such inane generalities, shimming the wastegate ==> increasing boost. and common sense will tell you that you can't just keep cranking up the boost and expect nothing to break. specifically, if the boost is too high then you will find that your engine may run lean (especially in high-boost high-rpm conditions), which will lead to detonation (which is bad, in case you hadn't guessed). this is because the stock chips are designed to supply enough fuel for stock boost levels - increased boost requires more fuel, and the stock chips are not programmed to supply this.
people have reported running slightly higher levels of boost on stock chips (some people even run up to 15psi), but my understanding was that it was a bit of a crap shoot and playing with fire to some extent.
if you want to get more power by increasing boost, then it's prolly best to do it properly. at a minimum, get a set of chips and shim your wastegate (LBE optional but prolly recommended). i think this is generally ok up to about 15 psi of boost. beyond that you have to start replacing other bits - this is is well beyond my limited area of knowledge.
talk to danno or travis @ guru racing - everybody has nothing but nice (and then some) things to say about these guys. the guru racing chips are supposed to be the biz - for ~ $250-300 you can get the chips, aa Reliaboost (~ an LBE) and a 3 bar FPR (and some wastegate shims too?), which is an absolute bargain methinks. i plan on doing this as soon as the dosh piles up a bit more.
PS please feel free to correct me, as i am a major n00b, but this is what i have gathered from asking a few people about the exact same thing.
12-09-2002, 04:31 AM
#4
Race Director
Shimming the wastegate may serve a seemingly similar purpose as a boost-controller, however, it is actually different. Its purpose is to raise the spring tension on the wastegate only. While it does have the side effect of raising boost (because it will require more pressure from the diaphragm to open), the extra spring tension is really meant to combat the exhaust-gas pressures which will force open the wastegate at high-RPM.
That's why we include both a check-valve boost-controller and wastegate shims with our kit. One serves to manage boost and bring it on earlier in the low-RPMs, and one help keep that boost into the upper-RPMs. These two components are not inclusive of each others' functions and it's best to do both.
Here's another indepth discussion on wastegates and control methods:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=010253" target="_blank">Topic: LBE intalled, getting weird readings</a> (LBE boost-control)
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=002698" target="_blank">Topic: Europroducts chip set with LBE. Are shims required? </a> (boost-control methods)
That's why we include both a check-valve boost-controller and wastegate shims with our kit. One serves to manage boost and bring it on earlier in the low-RPMs, and one help keep that boost into the upper-RPMs. These two components are not inclusive of each others' functions and it's best to do both.
Here's another indepth discussion on wastegates and control methods:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=010253" target="_blank">Topic: LBE intalled, getting weird readings</a> (LBE boost-control)
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=002698" target="_blank">Topic: Europroducts chip set with LBE. Are shims required? </a> (boost-control methods)
if u'r talking about mine and danno's insights, they're really all his (if slightly garbled). i just picked his brains a while back 