944 turbo or mr2 turbo?
07-07-2003, 06:19 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 87Porsche951:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Say what? The 2nd gen MR2 looks more like a Ferrari than any other car on the road. In fact, I had a friend with a 348 that sold it because people kept mistaking it for an MR2!
The layout and dynamics are a lot more like a Ferrari than a 944 too. Somebody was complaining about it being noisy and not having a back seat. It's more like a racecar than a 951, in layout and in feel. As for someone saying the motor doesn't upgrade well, there are a number of them dynoing over 300 rwhp and running 11 second quarters. They are also autocross killers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You say that the MR2 Turbo is more like a racecar than a 944. When you say that do you mean by looks or overall performance?
Here is a little info about the 944 you might of not have known.
The 1981 Porsche 944 GTP competed in the 1981 24 Hours of LeMans. The motor was a 2.5L Inline 4 w/ turbo just like production 951's but made 450HP. The car finished 7th overall and spent a total of 56 minutes in the pits for the whole race. The least time than any other entrant.
With this said this makes two points.
1. 951's are great racecars
2. a 951 can make over 400+ reliable horsepower.
When was the last time you seen a MR2 compete in the 24hour LeMans Race?
I also would not go as far as saying the MR2 is a autocross killer either.
I like MR2 Turbo's I think they look cool. But I would rather spend my money on a 951. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What a silly assertion. None of that crap means a thing as far a driving one on the street. The MR2 has the mid-engine dynamics and engine-in-your-hip-pocket that makes it feel like a racecar. It doesn't have a back seat like a 944 but not many racecars do either. I don't know what your point of reference is when you say you wouldn't say the MR2 is an autocross killer, but I've seen a well-driven one win many a ftod.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Say what? The 2nd gen MR2 looks more like a Ferrari than any other car on the road. In fact, I had a friend with a 348 that sold it because people kept mistaking it for an MR2!
The layout and dynamics are a lot more like a Ferrari than a 944 too. Somebody was complaining about it being noisy and not having a back seat. It's more like a racecar than a 951, in layout and in feel. As for someone saying the motor doesn't upgrade well, there are a number of them dynoing over 300 rwhp and running 11 second quarters. They are also autocross killers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You say that the MR2 Turbo is more like a racecar than a 944. When you say that do you mean by looks or overall performance?
Here is a little info about the 944 you might of not have known.
The 1981 Porsche 944 GTP competed in the 1981 24 Hours of LeMans. The motor was a 2.5L Inline 4 w/ turbo just like production 951's but made 450HP. The car finished 7th overall and spent a total of 56 minutes in the pits for the whole race. The least time than any other entrant.
With this said this makes two points.
1. 951's are great racecars
2. a 951 can make over 400+ reliable horsepower.
When was the last time you seen a MR2 compete in the 24hour LeMans Race?
I also would not go as far as saying the MR2 is a autocross killer either.
I like MR2 Turbo's I think they look cool. But I would rather spend my money on a 951. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What a silly assertion. None of that crap means a thing as far a driving one on the street. The MR2 has the mid-engine dynamics and engine-in-your-hip-pocket that makes it feel like a racecar. It doesn't have a back seat like a 944 but not many racecars do either. I don't know what your point of reference is when you say you wouldn't say the MR2 is an autocross killer, but I've seen a well-driven one win many a ftod.
07-07-2003, 11:37 AM
#32
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I haven't driven an mr2 turbo, but the older supercharged car was one of the more connected cars I've driven- with 951 in top five definately. The looks are a bit understated compared to the 951. Wouldn't be as good at higher speeds I can't imagine - I'm sure the mid engine isn't as 'mid' as newer, ie boxster. But, it could probably take a whole lot of abuse and not give too many signs of hate. I'm not a huge fan of the 951's gearbox but I'm sure I wouldn't like the mr2's either - don't like any toyota's. I'd drive both and see which one you like driving more though. Best of luck
07-07-2003, 07:16 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Blueman33:
<strong>"You will be hard pressed to have a reliable 944 Turbo for under 10k. Because if you find one cheap, then it probably means you will spend some $$ to make it right."
If you watch you can get a top notch one for under 10k, but I agree, it's not that easy. I just saw a 67k mile 951 in supposedly great condition for $8 or 9k, I forgot since I already have mine. Mine was original owner all papers, excellent condition other than the original paint had nicks and the dash is cracked by the defrost vents. It was for sale for $7995 at the lexus dealer. The car was bought sight unseen while I was on a test drive (the first test drive at 9 am the day the car was put on the lot) and resold to me, so Lexus had underpriced it. I do agree however to avoid the $4900 951 in 'great' condition.
"As for the back seats, I think they are completely useless unless you are under the age of 10."
This is not true, you can fit a paper bag of groceries in each side. : )</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hey i only paied $3800 for my car, Its in top notch condition, well to me atleast.
<strong>"You will be hard pressed to have a reliable 944 Turbo for under 10k. Because if you find one cheap, then it probably means you will spend some $$ to make it right."
If you watch you can get a top notch one for under 10k, but I agree, it's not that easy. I just saw a 67k mile 951 in supposedly great condition for $8 or 9k, I forgot since I already have mine. Mine was original owner all papers, excellent condition other than the original paint had nicks and the dash is cracked by the defrost vents. It was for sale for $7995 at the lexus dealer. The car was bought sight unseen while I was on a test drive (the first test drive at 9 am the day the car was put on the lot) and resold to me, so Lexus had underpriced it. I do agree however to avoid the $4900 951 in 'great' condition.
"As for the back seats, I think they are completely useless unless you are under the age of 10."
This is not true, you can fit a paper bag of groceries in each side. : )</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hey i only paied $3800 for my car, Its in top notch condition, well to me atleast.
07-08-2003, 09:33 PM
#34
Race Director
I paid $7k for my '86 951 in '97. After spending nine-months looking up and down the coast from S.F. to S.D. at about 17 cars, the gem was actually in my own back yard of S.B. It also happened to be the most pristine example out of all the ones I saw. Original owner, all records and maintenance up to date. It was a cream-puff, semi garage-queen. found a couple of receipts where the brought it in because it was making a squeaking noise from the back seats.
In '00 a friend of mine bought an '86 to turn into a racecar for $5k. Looked brand-new, but the mechanicals were worn. A good deal since he was going to be rebuilding and upgrading the whole thing anyway.
The deals are out there, just gotta keep your eyes open. I suspect a lot of the pricing guides here are a little high because a lot of folks would like to get those kinds of prices for their cars, but the market says something else.
In '00 a friend of mine bought an '86 to turn into a racecar for $5k. Looked brand-new, but the mechanicals were worn. A good deal since he was going to be rebuilding and upgrading the whole thing anyway.
The deals are out there, just gotta keep your eyes open. I suspect a lot of the pricing guides here are a little high because a lot of folks would like to get those kinds of prices for their cars, but the market says something else.
07-08-2003, 09:41 PM
#35
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Sami951:
<strong>Turbo cup is almost identical to stock 951, except for some minor modifications to engine (intake manifold, turbo, probably ecu, exhaust...) and a lot stiffer suspension.
The GTP on the other hand has a wide-*** fiberglass body, custom 16-valve engine and depending on ones source a 4-speed (some other sites say 5-speed so I don't know which one it is) transmission.
That's why I consider the turbo cup car to be a lot closer match to 951s than that GTP racer will ever be. It's an impressive car for sure, but it's not a 951.
Just my opinion of course <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I read that it still was the same 8V SOHC 2.5L Inline four. I would think it had a better turbo and the motor was highly tuned. I read it also had a five speed. I read there was only one GTP too. But who knows alot of information that is wrote is wrong.
<strong>Turbo cup is almost identical to stock 951, except for some minor modifications to engine (intake manifold, turbo, probably ecu, exhaust...) and a lot stiffer suspension.
The GTP on the other hand has a wide-*** fiberglass body, custom 16-valve engine and depending on ones source a 4-speed (some other sites say 5-speed so I don't know which one it is) transmission.
That's why I consider the turbo cup car to be a lot closer match to 951s than that GTP racer will ever be. It's an impressive car for sure, but it's not a 951.
Just my opinion of course <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I read that it still was the same 8V SOHC 2.5L Inline four. I would think it had a better turbo and the motor was highly tuned. I read it also had a five speed. I read there was only one GTP too. But who knows alot of information that is wrote is wrong.
07-09-2003, 05:19 AM
#36
Burning Brakes
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 87Porsche951:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Sami951:
<strong>Turbo cup is almost identical to stock 951, except for some minor modifications to engine (intake manifold, turbo, probably ecu, exhaust...) and a lot stiffer suspension.
The GTP on the other hand has a wide-*** fiberglass body, custom 16-valve engine and depending on ones source a 4-speed (some other sites say 5-speed so I don't know which one it is) transmission.
That's why I consider the turbo cup car to be a lot closer match to 951s than that GTP racer will ever be. It's an impressive car for sure, but it's not a 951.
Just my opinion of course <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I read that it still was the same 8V SOHC 2.5L Inline four. I would think it had a better turbo and the motor was highly tuned. I read it also had a five speed. I read there was only one GTP too. But who knows alot of information that is wrote is wrong.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Turbo Cup cars I recall have a magnesium intake manifold and magnesium wheels.
The GTP car that they featured in Exellence a few months ago was a 5 speed. The motor was a 16 valve porsche prototype, so the parts/replacements are extremely rare.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Sami951:
<strong>Turbo cup is almost identical to stock 951, except for some minor modifications to engine (intake manifold, turbo, probably ecu, exhaust...) and a lot stiffer suspension.
The GTP on the other hand has a wide-*** fiberglass body, custom 16-valve engine and depending on ones source a 4-speed (some other sites say 5-speed so I don't know which one it is) transmission.
That's why I consider the turbo cup car to be a lot closer match to 951s than that GTP racer will ever be. It's an impressive car for sure, but it's not a 951.
Just my opinion of course <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I read that it still was the same 8V SOHC 2.5L Inline four. I would think it had a better turbo and the motor was highly tuned. I read it also had a five speed. I read there was only one GTP too. But who knows alot of information that is wrote is wrong.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Turbo Cup cars I recall have a magnesium intake manifold and magnesium wheels.
The GTP car that they featured in Exellence a few months ago was a 5 speed. The motor was a 16 valve porsche prototype, so the parts/replacements are extremely rare.
07-09-2003, 07:30 PM
#37
Race Director
Yeah, a TurboCup is actually very similar to a TurboS. The chip-maps are identical to about 99%.
The 924GTP on the other hand was a completely different creature altogether. The "P" in GTP stands for Prototype and not much in that car was production-based. Some of it may have been used later in the 951 production cars, but I wished they had continued with the 4-valve head!
<img src="http://www.gururacing.net/ImagesMisc/924gtp-motor.jpg" alt=" - " />
The 924GTP on the other hand was a completely different creature altogether. The "P" in GTP stands for Prototype and not much in that car was production-based. Some of it may have been used later in the 951 production cars, but I wished they had continued with the 4-valve head!
<img src="http://www.gururacing.net/ImagesMisc/924gtp-motor.jpg" alt=" - " />
07-10-2003, 06:29 PM
#38
I did see a clip of a MR2T at the 24hrs of Nuremburg this year. I didn't notice any 951's though.
Both are great cars and from a numbers point of view, very similar. Bang-for-the-buck go for the MR2T. The only reason I sold mine to buy the 951 is because there is no place to race the MR2T. Comparing what I sold for what I got.....man that sucks. But if it says Porsche on it then it must be worth more!?!?! Right, that's what I keep telling myself anyway.
Oh well, the price of addiction I suppose. Addiction to racing that is.
Both are great cars and from a numbers point of view, very similar. Bang-for-the-buck go for the MR2T. The only reason I sold mine to buy the 951 is because there is no place to race the MR2T. Comparing what I sold for what I got.....man that sucks. But if it says Porsche on it then it must be worth more!?!?! Right, that's what I keep telling myself anyway.
Oh well, the price of addiction I suppose. Addiction to racing that is.
07-10-2003, 07:53 PM
#39
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The MR2 was a mass produced (but well engineered) sporty car and the 944 Turbo was a Sports Car created with more personal attention.
Similar figures on paper don't make them similar. Even though prices today may be in the same ballpark they never were intended to be competitors. I never considered an MR2 when I purchased my Turbo S.
Similar figures on paper don't make them similar. Even though prices today may be in the same ballpark they never were intended to be competitors. I never considered an MR2 when I purchased my Turbo S.
