Guru Map Kit / General Link Questions
12-13-2002, 03:17 AM
#31
Race Director
"To be fair, is the Link system really any different than the other engine management systems out there?"
Hmmm, most EFI systems are similar, probably 95% of all features are the same. And the primary function of any EFI system:
"While a plug-in harness and a solid base fuel map would be awesome, I think the Link system install itself is similar to SDS, Haltech, etc..."
It's really the differences between these systems that you want to examine. For example, how many of those other systems will allow you a 5-minute installation by unplugging your DME and plugging in their box (retaining stock harness and all stock sensors)? ... (more below)
"Danno, combining the link-1 with your t.b.a. Guru 364 package would make the timate non-invasive 951 upgrade package. Any plans?"
Possibly... Here's the GURU product line-up and intended usage.
Chip Upgrade Kit - best bang for the buck value! Easy installation and can be credited towards futuru MAP kit purchases.
Stg.1 MAP Upgrade Kit - simple install for stock cars for people who will be satisfied with 270rwhp from their stock turbo (290rwhp TurboS).
Stg.2 MAP Upgrade Kit - recommended upgrade for those who anticipate upgrading their turbo in the future. Larger, free-flowing J-pipe best matched to big turbos (forget about modifying your stock rubber J-pipe to work).
GURU-364 Upgrade Kit - Stg.2 MAP kit + 65-lb/hr injectors + new Garrett TO4E turbo (not rebuilt or hybrid <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> ). Preprogrammed matched components for simple drop-in installation.
Now all of the above kits are primarily aimed at people who do an upgrade every once in a while, say about once a year or so. They will stick with a well-defined configuration for a while before moving up to the next level.
Also at each stage above, you can upgrade to the next level and get a partial credit for your previous purchase so you won't have to throw parts away. The upgrade will primarily consist of us shipping you the additional parts to move you up to the next level. For example, going from Chip Kit to Stg.1 would be us sending you a Stg.1 MAP kit without the Chip Kit since the same components are used. Going from the Stg.1 to Stg.2 MAP kit will have us sending you the large J-pipe & filter used for the Stg.2 kit along with a re-calibrated MAP box (you send your old one back). Stg.2 users can upgrade to the 364 kit by having us send you the injectors, turbo and MAP box. Simple progression and you get to retain your previous investment in upgrades.
Now... onward to the GURU Racing EFI systems. These are based on the 2nd-generation Link-1 system. Additional features have been added such as PC-programmability, closed-loop boost-control using stock CV, programmable idle-speed control using stock idle-stabilizer (based upon temperature, AC, etc.), self-tuning fuel-maps (using narrow- OR wide-band O2-sensors), uses 951 stock speed & reference sensors, stock TPS, stock water-temp sensor, etc. So one of the benefits of the 951-specifiec Link-1 system over any other system out there, is the ability to use all the stock sensors. No extra crank-trigger wheel, temp-sensors, etc. are necessary.
In addition, we will be adding GURU-only features such as low & high-impedance injector support, plug & play installation into stock harness, pre-programmed with GURU v.8 fuel & ignition maps, pre-programmed packaged upgrades.
We will most likely be offering this in 4 GURU-specific configurations:
1. GURU Link-1 Plug & Play 1: Entry-level system will re-use stock coil & distributor. By plugging the system directly into the stock DME connector and re-using the stock harness, it will require all of 5-minutes to install!!!
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Again this difference is what sets the Link EFI apart from all other standalone systems out there. And it's also what sets GURU racing apart from other vendors of the Link system.
2. GURU Link-1 Plug & Play 2: This next system will use twin coil-packs mounted in the stock distributor location so you can use the same plug-wires. It will require running one additional wire to drive the 2nd coil-ignitor after you've plugged it into the stock harness.
3. GURU Link-1 w/replacement harness: This comes with a complete new wiring harness to replace the stock one. This is advised if yours has been hacked and tapped and modified to death. A clean start can remove troublesome electrical problems that's been plaguing you. HOWEVER, if your stock harness has been working fine, there's no need to replace it. Count on a 2-3 hour installation time.
4. GURU-364 kit w/Link-1 & replacement harness: The no-holds-barred kit with the works. Comes with new Garrett TO4E turbo and 65-lb/hr injectors (switchable ballasts built into GURU Link-1 box).
Now here's our intention with distinguishing between whether the MAP or EFI kit is best for you. The power produced for the same configuration will be identical. The determing factor is how often you will be upgrading your car and tweaking the settings. If you're the type profiled above with an upgrade once a year or so, the simpler MAP kits will be best for you.
The EFI systems will be for the weekend/full-time racecar that has a completely customized upgrade path that we can't possibly anticipate. It will be a car that's constantly upgraded (monthly). It's a car that needs the EFI system reprogrammed as parts wear on the track, etc.
Don't fall into the "more must be better" thinking because it's not really true. While Link-1 EFI systems have numerous pre-programmed 951-specific settings that you'll never have to mess with like in the old days, there are still 10x more user-adjustable parameters than with the MAP kit. Mis-adjusting any single one of these will reduce your performance below the MAP kit, or even destroy your car. So it's really for the people who knows what their doing when it comes to tuning a car.
Remember, we're here to provide you with benefits of an upgrade. We're not going to try and dazzle you with a list of features that sound bling-bling but may or may not do you any good.
Along those lines, our kits come complete with everything you need. You won't need to pay extra for things like harnesses, ignitors, coil-packs, ballasts, sensors, etc. like you would if you're shopping with some of the other vendors.
So in summary, the benefits we're providing you is:
Stay tuned, more to come... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
Hmmm, most EFI systems are similar, probably 95% of all features are the same. And the primary function of any EFI system:
- measure engine-speed
- measure/compute air-volume ingested
- open injectors proper duration to meter appropriate amount of fuel
- set off spark at optimum time
"While a plug-in harness and a solid base fuel map would be awesome, I think the Link system install itself is similar to SDS, Haltech, etc..."
It's really the differences between these systems that you want to examine. For example, how many of those other systems will allow you a 5-minute installation by unplugging your DME and plugging in their box (retaining stock harness and all stock sensors)? ... (more below)
"Danno, combining the link-1 with your t.b.a. Guru 364 package would make the timate non-invasive 951 upgrade package. Any plans?"
Possibly... Here's the GURU product line-up and intended usage.
Chip Upgrade Kit - best bang for the buck value! Easy installation and can be credited towards futuru MAP kit purchases.
Stg.1 MAP Upgrade Kit - simple install for stock cars for people who will be satisfied with 270rwhp from their stock turbo (290rwhp TurboS).
Stg.2 MAP Upgrade Kit - recommended upgrade for those who anticipate upgrading their turbo in the future. Larger, free-flowing J-pipe best matched to big turbos (forget about modifying your stock rubber J-pipe to work).
GURU-364 Upgrade Kit - Stg.2 MAP kit + 65-lb/hr injectors + new Garrett TO4E turbo (not rebuilt or hybrid <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> ). Preprogrammed matched components for simple drop-in installation.
Now all of the above kits are primarily aimed at people who do an upgrade every once in a while, say about once a year or so. They will stick with a well-defined configuration for a while before moving up to the next level.
Also at each stage above, you can upgrade to the next level and get a partial credit for your previous purchase so you won't have to throw parts away. The upgrade will primarily consist of us shipping you the additional parts to move you up to the next level. For example, going from Chip Kit to Stg.1 would be us sending you a Stg.1 MAP kit without the Chip Kit since the same components are used. Going from the Stg.1 to Stg.2 MAP kit will have us sending you the large J-pipe & filter used for the Stg.2 kit along with a re-calibrated MAP box (you send your old one back). Stg.2 users can upgrade to the 364 kit by having us send you the injectors, turbo and MAP box. Simple progression and you get to retain your previous investment in upgrades.
Now... onward to the GURU Racing EFI systems. These are based on the 2nd-generation Link-1 system. Additional features have been added such as PC-programmability, closed-loop boost-control using stock CV, programmable idle-speed control using stock idle-stabilizer (based upon temperature, AC, etc.), self-tuning fuel-maps (using narrow- OR wide-band O2-sensors), uses 951 stock speed & reference sensors, stock TPS, stock water-temp sensor, etc. So one of the benefits of the 951-specifiec Link-1 system over any other system out there, is the ability to use all the stock sensors. No extra crank-trigger wheel, temp-sensors, etc. are necessary.
In addition, we will be adding GURU-only features such as low & high-impedance injector support, plug & play installation into stock harness, pre-programmed with GURU v.8 fuel & ignition maps, pre-programmed packaged upgrades.
We will most likely be offering this in 4 GURU-specific configurations:
1. GURU Link-1 Plug & Play 1: Entry-level system will re-use stock coil & distributor. By plugging the system directly into the stock DME connector and re-using the stock harness, it will require all of 5-minutes to install!!!
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Again this difference is what sets the Link EFI apart from all other standalone systems out there. And it's also what sets GURU racing apart from other vendors of the Link system.
2. GURU Link-1 Plug & Play 2: This next system will use twin coil-packs mounted in the stock distributor location so you can use the same plug-wires. It will require running one additional wire to drive the 2nd coil-ignitor after you've plugged it into the stock harness.
3. GURU Link-1 w/replacement harness: This comes with a complete new wiring harness to replace the stock one. This is advised if yours has been hacked and tapped and modified to death. A clean start can remove troublesome electrical problems that's been plaguing you. HOWEVER, if your stock harness has been working fine, there's no need to replace it. Count on a 2-3 hour installation time.
4. GURU-364 kit w/Link-1 & replacement harness: The no-holds-barred kit with the works. Comes with new Garrett TO4E turbo and 65-lb/hr injectors (switchable ballasts built into GURU Link-1 box).
Now here's our intention with distinguishing between whether the MAP or EFI kit is best for you. The power produced for the same configuration will be identical. The determing factor is how often you will be upgrading your car and tweaking the settings. If you're the type profiled above with an upgrade once a year or so, the simpler MAP kits will be best for you.
The EFI systems will be for the weekend/full-time racecar that has a completely customized upgrade path that we can't possibly anticipate. It will be a car that's constantly upgraded (monthly). It's a car that needs the EFI system reprogrammed as parts wear on the track, etc.
Don't fall into the "more must be better" thinking because it's not really true. While Link-1 EFI systems have numerous pre-programmed 951-specific settings that you'll never have to mess with like in the old days, there are still 10x more user-adjustable parameters than with the MAP kit. Mis-adjusting any single one of these will reduce your performance below the MAP kit, or even destroy your car. So it's really for the people who knows what their doing when it comes to tuning a car.
Remember, we're here to provide you with benefits of an upgrade. We're not going to try and dazzle you with a list of features that sound bling-bling but may or may not do you any good.
Along those lines, our kits come complete with everything you need. You won't need to pay extra for things like harnesses, ignitors, coil-packs, ballasts, sensors, etc. like you would if you're shopping with some of the other vendors.
So in summary, the benefits we're providing you is:
- [*]
- [*]
- [*]
- [*]
Stay tuned, more to come... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
12-13-2002, 06:47 AM
#32
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Abbotsford, B.C.
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[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>
As for the injectors, yes you do need to be using ballast resistors. Or else they will force your DME to output twice as much current as the stock Porsche injectors. This will appear to work for a while, but the extra drain will eventually fry your DME.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Danno, I thought that it fried the 951 DME as the injectors are 4-5ohms. The non-turbo factory injectors are standard P&H 2.5ohm units. Will it cook my DME still?
<strong>
As for the injectors, yes you do need to be using ballast resistors. Or else they will force your DME to output twice as much current as the stock Porsche injectors. This will appear to work for a while, but the extra drain will eventually fry your DME.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Danno, I thought that it fried the 951 DME as the injectors are 4-5ohms. The non-turbo factory injectors are standard P&H 2.5ohm units. Will it cook my DME still?
12-13-2002, 04:45 PM
#34
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
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We have installed and run LINK EFI systems for some time guys. We have also been doing EFI conversions for years. We are selling the EFI kits right now and can ship when you are ready. Our packadges are well thought out and well packadged with all required componants including some nice brackets made in Carbon Fiber and such too. We have a Huntley 2.8 ltr 951 getting done right now in house with many more behind it.
12-13-2002, 05:52 PM
#35
Race Director
"Danno, I thought that it fried the 951 DME as the injectors are 4-5ohms. The non-turbo factory injectors are standard P&H 2.5ohm units. Will it cook my DME still? "
Yes, the issue is that the aftermarket P&H injectors have less impedance than the stock Bosch 5.5-ohm ones. If you work through V=IR using the same voltage for both injectors, you'll find that the 2.5-ohm aftermarket ones will cause a current-drain of 2.2x more than stock. That's why we include ballast resistors with all of our P&H injectors. Those who are selling you P&H injectors without including these or even at least a warning is doing you a disservice.
Yes, the issue is that the aftermarket P&H injectors have less impedance than the stock Bosch 5.5-ohm ones. If you work through V=IR using the same voltage for both injectors, you'll find that the 2.5-ohm aftermarket ones will cause a current-drain of 2.2x more than stock. That's why we include ballast resistors with all of our P&H injectors. Those who are selling you P&H injectors without including these or even at least a warning is doing you a disservice.
