Poor Rebuild - Gross Leakdown - Long
01-25-2002, 10:46 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Poor Rebuild - Gross Leakdown - Long
Periodically we here horror stories of engine rebuilds. Here's mine.
Purchased a car from a private owner with a 'fresh' engine from a 'reputable' shop in NJ. The car was listed as fresh with break-in hours only. The PO had paid $9000 + for the rebuild. Got the car home and changed the oil filter prior to taking the car out for the first run. Has a Canton Meca filter so it's easy. Founds lots and I mean lots of metal. Called the NJ shop and the guy recommended pulling the rod bearings and checking for contamination. He told me that they try to get all the metal but sometimes they don't. Stated the rod bearings would go first. Why not the mains?
Rod bearings looked ok but found lots of silicone seal around the pan gasket with lots of silicone seal particles attached to the oil pump screen. NJ shop stated they NEVER use silicone seal. I have lots
of great photos of never used silicone seal as the engine came apart.
At that point cleaned everything up put in new gaskets and rod bearings. So far no track time.
When I picked the car up from the mechanic I asked him to do a leak down/compression. Should have done that first. Here's where we get to the leakdown part. The cylinders were no better than 25% with 125 psi compression. Call the NJ shop and the owner says I need to break in the rings since the engine only has 3 hours on it. The receipts show that the block was honed, new rings installed, and the NJ shop
owner said it was honed to factory specs. Told me to look at my receipts from the PO and I would see that he checked it at 2%. Ok so off I go to the track. Keep checking leakdown over several DE's and no better.
Call the NJ shop owner and explain that the leakdown numbers are no better.
He tells me that it is time to tear into the engine. The one he told me would last at least 2 years keeping the boost at or under the 18 lb. it was set at on delivery. So I ask for a rebuild kit since there was an obvious problem. Now the story changes to he can't believe my mechanics leakdown numbers. He'd have to see them himself. BTW on one set of tests we pulled in my street 86 951 with 115K on it and did the numbers back to back. The street 86 showed 145PSI and 3-4%.
Frustration sets in and I have my mechanic tear down the engine. What a mess. He found the problem with the leakdown as soon as he pulled one piston and noted that it was a first over and put a ring back in the bore. There was a 2 mm ring gap! That's not a typo, 2mm. Went back to the receipts from the PO and found that the NJ shop had put in STANDARD rings. Do the math on a 100.5 bore and the ring gap is about perfect for that 2mm gap and a standard ring. For the life
of me I can't see how they ever got a 2% leakdown reading with those rings and a 2mm ring gap.
Other things noted were the use of silicone seal on the rear main, and balance shaft seals. Couldn't even tell I had an O ring in the right balance shaft until I dug all the sealant off of it. The oil pump
inner surfaces were gouged from the metal going through it. Two mains had heavy gouges into the copper. Guess the metal can get to the mains first. The crank girdle was not sealed to the block. Probably why I never got over 3 bar at 6000 rpm's. The inlet to the turbo was attached to an abortion of a pipe and mated with some sort of rubber piece which was not fuel/oil resistant. Result being pieces of the rubber meeting with the turbo blades. Ouch.
The car was supposed to have a cross drilled, knife edged and lightened crank. It was lightened and knife edged but they forgot about the cross drill part. A call to the NJ shop owner which built the engine and I received an offer to exchange my std./std. non cross-drilled-crank for
a std/1st under drilled crank plus $750 out of my pocket, no thanks. Thought I got that in the first place. It was on the receipts.
Bottom line with the NJ shop was an offer from the owner to give me a few gaskets, some bearings, thought he had some 1st over rings but didn't, and a turned cross drilled crank -$750 out of my pocket, and a used oil pump.
Since I can't go after the shop that leaves me with going after the PO. The car was represented as having a fresh engine ready to go racing. The records indicate about 300 miles on the engine after the rebuild prior to my purchase. The NJ shop also showed a 2% leakdown on those rings after one event. It was supposed to have a cross drilled crank and didn't. To me that's misrepresentation.
BTW, the car was listed on the Rennlist Classifides as ready to go racing with the fresh engine, break in time only, cross-drilled-lightened crank, larger oil pump? etc.
Thoughts?
Alan
Purchased a car from a private owner with a 'fresh' engine from a 'reputable' shop in NJ. The car was listed as fresh with break-in hours only. The PO had paid $9000 + for the rebuild. Got the car home and changed the oil filter prior to taking the car out for the first run. Has a Canton Meca filter so it's easy. Founds lots and I mean lots of metal. Called the NJ shop and the guy recommended pulling the rod bearings and checking for contamination. He told me that they try to get all the metal but sometimes they don't. Stated the rod bearings would go first. Why not the mains?
Rod bearings looked ok but found lots of silicone seal around the pan gasket with lots of silicone seal particles attached to the oil pump screen. NJ shop stated they NEVER use silicone seal. I have lots
of great photos of never used silicone seal as the engine came apart.
At that point cleaned everything up put in new gaskets and rod bearings. So far no track time.
When I picked the car up from the mechanic I asked him to do a leak down/compression. Should have done that first. Here's where we get to the leakdown part. The cylinders were no better than 25% with 125 psi compression. Call the NJ shop and the owner says I need to break in the rings since the engine only has 3 hours on it. The receipts show that the block was honed, new rings installed, and the NJ shop
owner said it was honed to factory specs. Told me to look at my receipts from the PO and I would see that he checked it at 2%. Ok so off I go to the track. Keep checking leakdown over several DE's and no better.
Call the NJ shop owner and explain that the leakdown numbers are no better.
He tells me that it is time to tear into the engine. The one he told me would last at least 2 years keeping the boost at or under the 18 lb. it was set at on delivery. So I ask for a rebuild kit since there was an obvious problem. Now the story changes to he can't believe my mechanics leakdown numbers. He'd have to see them himself. BTW on one set of tests we pulled in my street 86 951 with 115K on it and did the numbers back to back. The street 86 showed 145PSI and 3-4%.
Frustration sets in and I have my mechanic tear down the engine. What a mess. He found the problem with the leakdown as soon as he pulled one piston and noted that it was a first over and put a ring back in the bore. There was a 2 mm ring gap! That's not a typo, 2mm. Went back to the receipts from the PO and found that the NJ shop had put in STANDARD rings. Do the math on a 100.5 bore and the ring gap is about perfect for that 2mm gap and a standard ring. For the life
of me I can't see how they ever got a 2% leakdown reading with those rings and a 2mm ring gap.
Other things noted were the use of silicone seal on the rear main, and balance shaft seals. Couldn't even tell I had an O ring in the right balance shaft until I dug all the sealant off of it. The oil pump
inner surfaces were gouged from the metal going through it. Two mains had heavy gouges into the copper. Guess the metal can get to the mains first. The crank girdle was not sealed to the block. Probably why I never got over 3 bar at 6000 rpm's. The inlet to the turbo was attached to an abortion of a pipe and mated with some sort of rubber piece which was not fuel/oil resistant. Result being pieces of the rubber meeting with the turbo blades. Ouch.
The car was supposed to have a cross drilled, knife edged and lightened crank. It was lightened and knife edged but they forgot about the cross drill part. A call to the NJ shop owner which built the engine and I received an offer to exchange my std./std. non cross-drilled-crank for
a std/1st under drilled crank plus $750 out of my pocket, no thanks. Thought I got that in the first place. It was on the receipts.
Bottom line with the NJ shop was an offer from the owner to give me a few gaskets, some bearings, thought he had some 1st over rings but didn't, and a turned cross drilled crank -$750 out of my pocket, and a used oil pump.
Since I can't go after the shop that leaves me with going after the PO. The car was represented as having a fresh engine ready to go racing. The records indicate about 300 miles on the engine after the rebuild prior to my purchase. The NJ shop also showed a 2% leakdown on those rings after one event. It was supposed to have a cross drilled crank and didn't. To me that's misrepresentation.
BTW, the car was listed on the Rennlist Classifides as ready to go racing with the fresh engine, break in time only, cross-drilled-lightened crank, larger oil pump? etc.
Thoughts?
Alan
01-26-2002, 02:17 AM
#2
That's **** poor, go after PO and then let him go after the builder, that seems like the only legal way to go through with it. I feel sorry for the PO because he sold the car thinking all the work had been done correctly it sounds like. I hope this has tought everyone who reads this post a valuable lesson about some builders practices and to check out any vehicle throughly before purchase. Maybe at a later date you can divulge the name of the shop.
01-26-2002, 10:12 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'll post a name at a later date. For the moment the PO has received a request from my attorney asking him to settle. Next step file in court.
The attorney said my contract is with the PO. If I get a settlement against him he can go after the builder. Not as straight forward as I would like but I guess it's the way to go.
Alan
The attorney said my contract is with the PO. If I get a settlement against him he can go after the builder. Not as straight forward as I would like but I guess it's the way to go.
Alan
01-27-2002, 06:48 AM
#5
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Yeah Jon, that's what I was thinking- m ost people wouldn't spend over $9K on aan engine reb uild and then sell it after 300 mlies w/out having a pretty good reason 
Maybe the PO didn't know the extent of it, but it seems he would HAVE to have known SOMETHING wasn't right...
Good luck,
Robby
Maybe the PO didn't know the extent of it, but it seems he would HAVE to have known SOMETHING wasn't right...Good luck,
Robby
