J Chen

Hi Guys,
Does anyone knows where I can purchase a 60-1 hifi
at a good price ?
Thanks

porshhhh951

hmmm...no i dont but i know you will be talking about alot of money.Why do you want so much power? Are you going to be racing at higher speeds on the freeway?? That turbo is great for peak power but has alot of lag...i just wanted to know your modivation.

TonyG

porshhhh951

Are you speaking from experience? Do or have you owned one?

I've owned a few of them.

The 60-1 HiFi refers to the compressor only. That in and of itself has nothing to do with lag.

The lag, and thus the back pressure of the turbo, is determined by the turbine side of the turbo.

You could setup a 60-1 HiFi to respond almost exactly like a K27/6 if you had the correct turbine setup.

I'm not going to get into detail, as it has nothing to do with this thread.... but you shouldn't make blanket statements like that unless you are speaking from experience.

TonyG

J Chen

Call Speed Force Racing.

fast951

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TonyG:
<strong>
The lag, and thus the back pressure of the turbo, is determined by the turbine side of the turbo.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Backpressure is a result of a Turbine/compressor mismatch. If you are having backpressure problem before you get on boost, there is something else wrong. Backpressure builds in relation to boost, so if you are making boost, you already gone through the "lag period".

Many factors affect lag not just the turbine section. (turbine vs. compressor efficiency to name a few).

Sloth

I had a 60-1 HiFi on a 2.5L 951. Boost would start at about 3500rpm and pull very strong to redline. Below 3500 there was nothing. For me it was fine as I only used the car on the track, I would not have wanted it for a street setup though. I do not know what the turbine or compressor trims were.

fast951

Sloth,

Very good observation! Turbo sizing should be tailored to match driving requirements (street/track/..) and engine output.

J Chen

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the advice. Hmmm, I read a thread
from Sean Hall that his 60-1 hifi started to make
boost at 2900rpm ???? & he's running #8 housing
with V trim (whatever that is ). So can someone
enlighten me on this please ?
Thanks in advance Guys

J Chen

Porshhh951,
I'm not looking for all out power gains. I'm looking for a turbo that will adapt to the upgrades as I go along. As you can see, I live
in Taiwan & it's gonna be very difficult for me
to sell my stuff everytime when I upgrade.
Besides, I've got a 968 engine sitting in my
garage which will be the ultimate upgrade for me
when finances allows.

fast951

In order to get the appropriate Turbo, you first must decide the engine size, HP potential, boost level. Then you decide which turbo works best.
There is not 1 single solution, there are many solutions.
A Turbo that works well with a 2.5L, will probably not perform so well with a 3.0L.

Since you are concerned about upgrading and having to replace parts... Pick a package that has been tested and that meets your requirements. Otherwise, you'll be experimenting on your own, and more than likely, you'll end up spending much more and not saving at all.
Pick a package that allows you to upgrade without having to replace all of the components. Packages that are "one size fits all", well they usually do not perform well under any condition...

However, you might get lucky, and be on target the first time....

J Chen

Hi Fast951,
Thanks for enlightening me. O.k sticking to the
2.5L engine, which turbo & what trim for cold
& hot side would you reccommend if I'm looking
to make 350rwhp at 18psi of boost ?

Luke

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TonyG:
<strong>porshhhh951


The 60-1 HiFi refers to the compressor only. That in and of itself has nothing to do with lag.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">IT most certainly DOES!

it takes energy to compress air. <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by J Chen:
<strong>Hi Fast951,
Thanks for enlightening me. O.k sticking to the
2.5L engine, which turbo & what trim for cold
& hot side would you reccommend if I'm looking
to make 350rwhp at 18psi of boost ?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I would think a to4b super H w/ turbonetics stage 3 turbine and either a 8 hotside should do that with a more aggressive cam shaft.

TonyG

Luke

For the most part, the spool up is determined by the exhaust side of the equation.

I've driven cars with 60-1 HiFi turbos that spooled almost exactly like a K27/6.

I've also driven 60-1 HiFi turbos that have a lot of lag.

The only difference being the turbine wheel and the a/r of the exhaust housing, and in some cases, the shape of the exhaust housing (KKK style vs Garrett style).

I've also owned 4 different 60-1 HiFi turbos. Each completely different from each other with respect to lag. Again... the only difference being the turbine wheel and the exhaust housing.

So... speaking from experience, not theory, you can have a 60-1HiFi that will spool quickly... just like I said.

Luke

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TonyG:
<strong>
So... speaking from experience, not theory,....just like I said.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">no tony, that is not 'just what you said' you said that compressor wheels have nothing to do w/ lagg... ( we are actually talking about boost threshold ). The energy it takes to compress air has almost as much of an affect on boost threshold as the size of the turbine. ( and the back pressure back there )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TonyG:
<strong>Luke

I've driven cars with 60-1 HiFi turbos that spooled almost exactly like a K27/6.
.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">And I've seen k27/6's that dont make full boost until 3600rpm.

I personally have been seeing full boost at around 3800rpm w/ a stage 3 turbine and #6 hotside.

TonyG

Look...

If you want to compare a K26 compressor to a 66-1 compressor, then yes the mass of the compressor wheel will have a lot to do with it.

If you compare a K27 to a 60-1HiFi, to a T04B, etc... (similar sized compressor wheels) then the mass difference of these respective sized compressor wheel has almost nothing to do with it.

That's evidenced by the fact that you can get them all to spool up very quickly if you put on a small exaust side.

In the context of the original comment made by porshhhh951, my answer was correct.

If you want to start an engineering study on the issue go right ahead.

But the comment made by porshhhh951 was simply not correct.

The simple fact is that most people install an exhaust side that is too big to begin with, then blame the compressor for being too big.

Install a #6 hot side on a 60-1HiFi and verify for yourself.

Then install a K27/8.

Which turbo do you think will spool quicker?