first, a little background to qualify things.

my rebuild turned into quite the project, and i'm likely to end up with some serious power upon completion...

i've been working with lindsey racing to source practically everything (dave and mike have been SOOO helpful!!) - right now i'm waiting on a built-up shortblock to compliment the head they sent me as well as some other stuff... here's my plan thus far.

2.8L (stroker) with:
custom length pauter rods
worked 3.0L crank (lightened, knifed, x-drilled, plugged, polished)
fly-cut pistons (no longer interference engine, plus lower compression)
coating the pistons
all new bearings, seals, water pump, plus adding baffles

lindsey stage2 head, intake manifold, digital maf, and most likely their/kokeln's "street" turbo (not the stage 5, the one down from that). toss in some guru chips, big injectors (we were going to run 55lb until the 2.8L idea was settled on, now i think 72's gonna be the magic number). i'm sure i'm forgetting some stuff we've done (seeing as i'm still up at 6am)...

anyhow, I plan to limit boost to 10-12psi, absolutely no more than 15/1-bar, for now at least... but i've read/heard/guessed that it could still make 400+ rwhp at that point, and i'd bet with proper tuning of the digital maf on a dyno and perhaps a little more (15-18psi) boost, 450-500 wouldn't be too hard to obtain... but now my concern is, how good is the stock transmission? as some might recall, I had Ian @ 944 online / Ian's Europarts down in FL rebuild my transmission + install a quaife LSD - so everythign should be in great shape as far as wear-and-tear... but, still, how much can that handle, what about CVs, wheel-bearings, etc etc? I don't plan to drag-launch the thing (and if it does go down to the drag strip for testing etc, i'll still likely take it easy for 1st gear - right now i've got an MBC but I think for drag i'd need something else like an avc-r to dial-in lower 1st gear boost).... it's going to be a street / autox car, with hopefully a few DE events... after all of this work, frankly, i can't afford to do much suspension / brake wise, which pisses me off, in so many ways i'd rather have a car with half the power and twice the handling, but to me, when stuff breaks on the car, its an "opportunity" to upgrade / improve on stuff, and the engine was what broke. at the bare minimum, i'm getting seats + harness bar + harness soon - which should be fine for the next 2 years (since it might see at most 4-5 track days in that period of time), til i can afford / justify another car and then I'll tear it apart, down to the chassis, get that acid-dipped, powder coated, and go with a fully cf or glassed (wide)body, etc etc.... (hey, i can dream lol)

also, tires. i've got 17x(um, 9, 9.5, 10?) with 245x40s on 'em - can i go wider, will i need to go wider? i'm most likely going to run advan ao-32r tires in the summer, or something similar (or maybe just s03s or pilots) for the sake of traction... but am I going to just boil them into little piles of rubber shavings at that size?

any advice would be most welcome!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

 

Up to about 400 I don't think you'd have a serious problem provided you stay away from side stepping the clutch.

I'm at 375 rwhp with a cup clutch and haven't had any drive line failures.

When you hit 375 rwhp I don't think your 72 lb. injectors will give you much of a safety mrgin. You'll probably want to look into a better fuel pump as well.

Alan

 

More then likely you will loose the cv joints first but don't worry there easy to change. About the tires, i wouldn't look for to much grip because that's how things break. Plus i think 72Lbs injectors are questionable on a stock dme. Sounds like your building a monster. Good luck

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">after all of this work, frankly, i can't afford to do much suspension / brake wise, which pisses me off, in so many ways i'd rather have a car with half the power and twice the handling </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Personal opinion.. do up the interior and suspension first. You will be amazed at how quick the car can be if you have good stuff under you. Having the interior done up really makes the mundane traffic jams nice. Getting it mechanically ready for big power is also a great idea. Then buck up some saved cash and learn how to drive it to the limit on the stock motor.

If you bust something at the track, there is your opportunity to upgrade, but learning to handle 250 horses can be harder than you think. Learning to handle 375 horses on stock brakes and suspension is a death warrant.

My 280 horses on stock components showed me that the brakes are inadaquite and the suspension not hard enough to put the power down in a safe manner.

I am all for more power, but you can do wonders knowing exactly how to drive the car to it's limits.

I would source out a low mile stock bottom end, slap the head on it with a used turbo of a bigger size, some injectors and chips, then have a ball. Then again, I do not know what you already bought.

 

yea...the stock suspension holds up pretty well with 227 to the crank...400 hp is going to be hauling some serious ***. just dont let it get away from you.

 

wow sounds like a five figure motor, should be a monster. i agree w/ the other guys though, i was going to go the motor route first but after alot of thaught i decided suspension would be the better route. my 951's suspension is quite soft (stock w/ 90k on it) and the brakes are good for the power its mustering, but 400+ hp is a whole different universe heheh. best of luck (and dont forget pics heheh)

 

Cv joints are the weak link on 86's especially if the car is tracked. Basicly the CV's are VW transport parts. I believe they were upgraded in 87 to much stronger units. I raced the first Andial 2.8 in 87-91 with only an upgraded Cup clutch with no driveline problems. We even ran the low ring and pinion. Loved the torque coming out of the corners. We dynoed the car after some extensive mods and pulled 600 ft lbs of torque on a Mustang dyno proving the stock transmission is pretty durable. We did however manage to destroy a Quaif. Wish I still had that car. Good luck.

 

Jim Brady,
How did you get that much torque with that car? Can you let us know what mods were done to that car.

 

White
Andial built the motor with ultra rare(at that time) motorsport injectors with some really hot chips, from the factory race effort. The turbo was a modified unit without water cooling. We ran water injection to help with any detonation. Carillo rods, Mahle 8.2 to 1 pistons, extrude honed head with factory magnessium intake and oil pan. The cam profile was from a 944 N/A race motor. Much like the Trans Am motors of that era at 1.4 bar we experienced head gasket failures when the head lifts. (even O ringing didn't help with raceware studs) I was cautioned by Dieter at Andial not to run the motor above 1.2 bar but we thought it would hold together for one race. Lasted 5 laps.

 

There is a 951 in this months excellence magazine with 640 hp.......=))

It's about time they put another hot 951 in there. I think the last one was David Chen's 500 hp.....that......somehow......blew up.......=))

 

Yea, but it has a 968 engine installed. Don't know how you can call that a 951 anymore.

None the less, it is a sweet ride!

 

yes, but he sleeved it down to 2.6 liters. Closer to 951 displacement than 968.

They are essentially the same powerplant anyhow.

I am not too crazy about the hood vents and the ironing board on the rear......but, nice car.

 

i am all for building a car from the suspension up, doing the motor last... except, i've already got to do the motor, and don't want to have to do it twice... i'm gonna keep boost around 10-12psi likely, it might be capable of 450-500hp or more, but i'll likely never push it past 350-400. i know a good driver in a car with half the power, or, the same driver as me, in a car with half the power but some suspension work, will be better than me, but i'm not doing this to be competative more than to be simply fun... for now later, as the money comes, or as things break, i'll be working on brakes, suspension, etc. as it is now, i'm getting 2 seats, harness bar + harnesses -- this is going to be a street + autox car only for the next year or so (don't they say, a great autox driver makes a good road-course driver, but not vice-versa?).

since i'm already fairly committed to doing this, i'd appreciate suggestions on the injectors, as well as where to source cvs and what, when/if they break.

 

I've broken nearly every drivetrain part imaginable, so I've got some experience in this area .

Stock CV joints don't last. Even if you don't launch your car, stock CV joints will break eventually (3 a year for me on average at 12psi). I think it has something to do with my addiction to heel toe downshifting/engine braking even on the street... takes a toll on the stock units. Upgrade to the GKN units, I'm using their OEM kit, and it handled last years roadcourse (14psi) and drag racing (28psi) duties fine. Don't launch the car hard, that'll probably break the GKN CV joints (unless you move to the motorsport units).

Tranny, 1st gear will go if you launch the car enough. I did 2 years worth of drag racing where I launch at 6000rpm, drop the clutch and go. Lost 1st gear. This was when my car was merly a Autothority Stage 2 chipped car w/Banjo bolt. 2nd gear will go if you power shift into it enough as well. I powershift into 3rd, 4th and 5th without any problems, even at 28psi last year. The secret is not to launch the car off the line, especially with grippy tires. That's a recipe for disaster.

Stock LSD - tough, very tough. I'm still using the factory original LSD (when I got a used tranny to replace my dead 1st and 2nd gear unit it had no LSD and I swapped the original back in).

Clutch - Cup clutch disc is ok, stock pressure plate isn't good enough at around 350rwhp (guess). It'll start slipping. I'm using the powerhaus upgraded pressure plate and that works really well now.

Suspension - stock suspension is interesting at over 400rwhp... just look at my drag race video, all you can see is sky on the stock suspension at 25psi .

 

yeah i've been in contact with GKN about their cvs, after your recommendation i will likely to that route whem mine break (might even order a set to have on hand for less downtime, it's not a terribly hard install right?).

what do you know about the quaife LSD's holding up (or not)?

and who sells upgraded pressure plates, and roughly how much are they?

i don't plan on drag-racing (as i mentioned i might take the car down to nyirp a few times for test-and-tune, but nothing serious or weekly) and even if i do, i think i'll likely street-launch it at well under 4k, probably under 3500 even, i never powershift, and don't really dump the clutch either.

rage, do you have an injector duty-cycle meter or some sorts? do your 72lb/hrs make it above 80ish ever? i don't want to hit 90 or higher on whichever injectors i choose, but i also don't want something that's going to be horrible at idle / low rpms / off-boost etc...