Returning to a serious note, where can I get more info on the MAP upgrade? How does it interact with all the other pieces like chips, wastegate, turbocharger, intercooler, pipes, etc. Does it render any of those other improvements obsolete? Or does it simply replace the MAF? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

 

also very interested

 

"where can I get more info on the MAP upgrade? "

For those of you just joining in, please read up on the theory and history behind our MAP-sensor upgrade kit:

01-11-17: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=001955" target="_blank">Mass Air Flow sensor question</a>
02-03-02: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=004313" target="_blank">lets talk MAP sensors (kinda long) </a>
02-05-18: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=006764" target="_blank">APEXi S-AFC? </a>
02-05-23: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=001466" target="_blank">MAP sensor upgrade 1 </a>
02-06-17: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=001694" target="_blank">LINK SYSTEM UPDATE 2 </a>
02-06-20: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=001703" target="_blank">guess what............. IM RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!! </a>
02-07-12: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=001884" target="_blank">Link AFM Unit </a>

" How does it interact with all the other pieces like chips, wastegate, turbocharger, intercooler, pipes, etc. Does it render any of those other improvements obsolete? Or does it simply replace the MAF?"

In a nutshell, this unit replaces your entire intake system before the turbo-inlet. Thus a major flow-restriction is removed to provide the highest-flowing configuration possible (even more free-flowing than MAF). One of the key ingredients in our Stage-II kit is a custom J-pipe that's the most optimized design yet.

The stock Air-Flow Meter (AFM) is replaced with a MAP-sensor that measures the intake Manifold's Absolute Pressure (MAP); i.e. what you see on your boost-gauge. The AFM-link unit we use has a built-in MAP-sensor that taps into the KLR boost line so you don't have to run any hoses or wires under the hood at all. If you've previously upgraded to a MAF kit, those components will be superceded by our system.

chips: Our Stage-I kit will work with a stock car with K26 turbo using either stock chips or aftermarket chips. The free-flow intake will automatically raise boost to 13psi on a stock car. Aftermarket chip users will have to turn their boost-controllers back down to 15psi. Then the AFM-link box will be pre-programmed for the increased flow under these conditions.

Our Stage-II kit will include our own custom-programmed chips loosely based upon the Turbo Cup Car and DINAN chips. We are considering bundling ALL of our kits with a set of our chips, simply to reduce the tuning variables present out there. As you can see from <a href="http://www.novustelecom.net/~fkassam/dyno/dyno.html" target="_blank">Farzaan's Dyno Day</a> comparisons, the Turbo Cup Car chips wins hands down with the broadest and smoothest torque curves (means fastest 0-60 & 1/4-miles times).

wastegate: stock wastegate should be fine, we will include wastegate shims to ensure that those with weak springs can achieve 13psi with stock chips. And 15psi with aftermarket chips.

turbocharger: since low-end torque is substantially increased (max-torque @ 3200rpm), more exhaust energy is available to spool the turbo. You can expect turbo-lag and boost-threshold to be reduced substantially. Max-boost is reached at 3300rpm and lag-time is reduced to 0.25-50sec (stock is about 0.50-0.75s).

intercooler: as been discussed recently by expert tuners like Gomes & Garrity, the stock intercooler is fine for stock boost & flow levels. However, with flow-increasing upgrades, the intercooler gets inefficient at high-boost and high-RPMs. We'll have to measure intercooler inlet & outlet temperatures to really know the exact degree (pun intended) of inefficiency. We're working on a more reasonably priced intercooler temp-gauge than the Davtron ones...

"Am I right in thinking then that if you fit the MAP Link kit you need to change to a non-recirculating blow off valve? Just checking before I go out and buy a new valve."

Nope, you can still use the stock valve in compressor-bypass mode as it's installed in the stock configuration. Only that a MAP-sensor based system will ALLOW you to run it in blow-off mode and vent boost-pressure to the atmosphere between shifts without adverse fuel-enrichment and stumbling. However, in blow-off mode, you need a stiffer spring to avoid leaks at idle and partial-throttle conditions. This stiffer spring will then slow down the valve's opening between shifts, potentially slowing down the turbo more than the stock bypass configuration.

Personally, I don't think there's any performance benefits to venting boost-pressure to the atmosphere between shifts. But our system will allow you to do that if you wish.

 

You say that the Link-Sys is pre-programmed for our cars, what exactly is pre-programmed? What if I change my FPR, injectors, engine displacement? What are the things that are non-changeable, or what is going to be hard-coded that will cause problems?

 

I am interested. Cant be a buyer till after we get moved to Phoenix (hopefully &gt;8 weeks), but at the price quoted, I am definately interested.

 

what we mean when we say preprogramed is the span and alighnment figures in the link controler box these two figures are what set the base for programming when they are hard written or burned in the box this allows only the 951 to be programmed and no other type of vehicle thus securing the systems integrity so people dont try and use it on other vehicles.But to answer all of your question you will be able to manipulate the whole fuel scale and adjust it for any performance mod from stock to a 400 rwhp killer.I hope this sheds some light

 

Just a quick clarification on the differences between hard-coded and pre-programmed.

It had been previously explained earlier in this post, the hard-coded information is specific data relating to the 951. Things like numbers of cylinders, throttle-position voltages and air-flow meter flow-ranges, etc. Settings that only need to be set once and never change will be non-adjustable from now on.

The pre-programmed part is the fuel-maps for :

1. a bone-stock 951 with stock turbo, chips and wastegate @ 11 psi with 3" K&N (boost will be raised to 13psi with the kit)

2. a semi-stock 951 with stock turbo, wastegate and aftermarket chips @ 15psi with 3" K&N filter

3. a modified 951 with stock turbo, wastegate, aftermarket exhaust and our custom high-flow J-pipe, 4" K&N filter and our custom chips (based upon the Turbo Cup Car and several aftermarket chips)

We have done extensive dyno testing to figure out the fuel-maps for an optimal air-fuel ratio with these configurations. If you have a set-up that's wildly different, such as an upgraded turbo @ higher-boost, head P&P or big-bore upgrades, then you can get the optional hand-held programmer to make changes to the fuel-maps. Combined with laptop datalogging, you can customize your own air-fuel maps in 500rpm increments across all load-ranges.

Here's a note I posted at the end of another thread:

"So what is the benifit of your MAP kit as opposed to a MAF kit?"

Several benefits:

- no flow-limits on the sensor, MAF sensors have a flow-range that they work within. If you upgrade your turbo at a later time, you'll have to dump your MAF-2 sensor for a MAF-4, etc...

- almost infinitely fine fuel-control. Adjustments can be made +/- 128% in 500rpm increments through the entire RPM & load range. You can dial in a fuel-mixture that's perfectly optimized for power. On our test car, we obtained a full-throttle fuel-curve that was between 12.2-12.8:1 from 2000-6000rpm.

- This results in great driveability with infinite flow-capacity. Ask anyone who've tried to install a MAF-4 kit and see what kinds of problems they had with getting the car to idle correctly (much less pass smog). Our kit gives you high-flow yet fine control at idle & low-rpms (no lean spot from 1500-2500 under full-throttle).

- Unlimited upgrade potential is another feature. Since you can't max out the sensor, you can upgrade to larger turbos & more boost easily. Even easier with our custom chipset which will let you plug & play with larger 55lb/hr or 72lb/hr injectors without having to mess with fuel-pressure and re-mapping your entire fuel-map. Just turn a switch on the DME and the chips switch over to the 55lb/hr fuel-settings. Turn the switch again and you've got the DME adjusted for 72/lb/hr injectors.

Let's keep the discussions confined to this thread so we can keep everything together, thanks!

 

This sounds like what I am looking for. Can't wait to see the final offering.

(I'm interested)

 

Danno:
What is an approximate cost for the MAP kit ?
I am definitely interested.

 

Danno:

Have you been getting your emails?

 

hey danno, i know i mentioned this before and you said you were looking into it... have you decided anything about the palm pilot as controller?

 

Danno, I am ecstatic about this system. Put me on the list for your buyers. I will buy one of the systems if it is what you say it is. Sounds like the perfect system! e mail me privately if you need to concerning price and final development. Later

 

Danno,

Im interested in this system. Unfortunately I just lost my job so I cant expect to buy till later in the year or next :-( more than likely next year :-( :-(

 

HI I'M NEW TO THIS FORUM. I JUST PURCHASE 87 944 COVERTED TO A 951. HAS THIS KIT BEEN MADE. WHAT ARE THE FIRST BEST UPGRADES FOR A STOCK 951. I'M TRYING TO GET MY CAR UP TO 400+ HP. WHAT ARE THE BEST STEPS.
P.S. I WELCOME ANY LINKS ON BARGAIN PARTS. OR KILLER SETUPS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>"Will this only work for the 86 to 88 turbo or also for the turboS and 89. I am looking at a 88S right now with APE chips. "

"Since you will be making the first kit for the AutoThority chip's, do you think it will work with a SteveR chip?"

It will work for a TurboS as well. We will probably be bundling our own performance chip upgrade with this kit to reduce the amount of variables involved. That way, we can count on the fuel-maps we program into the MAP-sensor box being right on.

" if i go with the tec3 engine mang. system do i still need this map sensor?"

No, this MAP-sensor upgrade is a halfway step towards a complete replacement engine-management system. We suspect it will be good for controlling fuel up into the 400-450rwhp range, at which point an EFI system may be more efficient with tuning & dyno time.

"Let me know if you want me to keep my car stock for the dyno day. I'm ready to put the MAF back on otherwise."

DanD, why were you removing and re-installing your MAF kit? If you can hold out for another week, you can test out this kit.

NOTE: due to sensitive negotiations with various Link-related suppliers, I've edited out the stuff I had originally posted about bypassing U.S. distributors. I'm preparing a more formal retraction to be posted later when I'm finished.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">

 

banger, go to <a href="http://www.gururacing.net" target="_blank">www.gururacing.net</a> you can find this MAP there, and guru is said to also have the best chips for the 951.