keith

Ian - I'm wondering if the venting and the inlet opening for the IC couldn't both be made into the header panel... (and kept subtle)

Wish you were in the room, I'd sketch it on a napkin or something for ya...

Danno - why don't you guys make a single slotted nose panel like the black one in the picture that fits well and doesn't sag (has internal bracing).
(I don't know why Porsche didn't - that rolled single slot looks SOOO factory...)

Also, if you made a simple block off plate to seperate the area in front of the resevoir (behind the headlight) where the cones usually go from the rest of the engine bay, I bet that'd be a seller... Better yet, it could be built into your tapered tube cone filter mount. I don't know why we haven't seen that one yet, either.
That should accomplish the same thing with out cutting the hood/risking water entry, correct?
(don't get me wrong, I love NACA ducts...)

superjet.1

the intake has water drain holes on the bottom and will work great with our map kit but not a mas kit.yes you have to cut a nacta duct in your hood and it comes with a template there is play in the set up so motor mount wear is figured in.this isnt a set up for everyone but what were trying to figure out is how much would someone with the need for this kit want to spend we are working hard to try and get performance for the least dollars.

Edman951

[quote] Also, if you made a simple block off plate to seperate the area in front of the resevoir (behind the headlight) where the cones usually go from the rest of the engine bay, I bet that'd be a seller... Better yet, it could be built into your tapered tube cone filter mount. I don't know why we haven't seen that one yet, either.
That should accomplish the same thing with out cutting the hood/risking water entry, correct? <hr></blockquote>
I agree, a cold air box around the filter behind the head light with it taking air from the fender would work safer for the street guys and cheaper to build.
The kit you are showing is more for the race track and maybe,if the interest is there you should do it also.
But i say, build a cold air box for behind the head light,for use with the stage 2 map kit.......

Also i don't now if anybody has tought about this but. Why not build a hood vent to extract hot air from the engine bay.
Or Turbo and header heat shields to help reduce under hood temps.

Anyways GURURACING KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Ski

Keep it under $700,,offer another discount if purchased with the MAP.

Ski

[quote]Originally posted by Ski:
<strong>Keep it under $700,,offer another discount if purchased with the MAP.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

The hood exhaust for hot air,,two SMALL naca ducts similar to the 968 turbo RS hood but placed over the exhaust and turbo area in reverse.

Danno

We haven't even done an instrumented test on the box yet, so we'll have to report back to you on that. Wasn't there someone a couple of weeks ago that measured the actual air-temperatures behind the radiator and behind the headlight and found that thing weren't what we expected? Part of the advantage here is we're trying for an even more free-flowing arrangement. Rather than a 18" J-pipe, you attach the same giant 4" K&N filter only 6" away from the turbo. Also the box is on the body of the car so vibration and engine movement are isolated through a short section of rubber tubing that connects the box to the turbo.

Yes, we'll incorporate a block-off plate on J-pipe. Just had to get a couple of them out quickly for the kits that had been orderd. We'll retrofit those kits later.

What would you guys think is a fair price that you would be willing to pay for an item like this? Remember that we have various materials available.

Brian Morris

Glad to see you're working on a cold air intake - it's about time someone did it. I know you didn't ask this but I'll chime in with others to say I would be interested in an effective cold air kit that took air from the fender - even if the hole had to be be cut bigger.

I can't really give you a number on what you've shown - I wouldn't buy it because of cutting the hole in the hood.

--Brian Morris
89 951

BigPorscheGuy39

That is very well done and professional. I'd pay $300-$400 for a kit that does it to the 931...$500 would be right for one for the 951.

toddk911

How much air actually comes in from the driver's side fender hole?

tazman

I still say you have to let us know what we will be getting for the price. It dosen't look like anybody's intercooler pipes will work with that in there will your kit provide a set of pipes? I think you should make a list of everything you plan to include in the kit.

Outlaw952

Suprised no one has thought to ask, but it looks heavier than the plastic stock box. How much weight are we adding with this? Also, this is sitting right behind the radiator, which will probably heat up the metal box, and as a result will add some heat to the cold air that was just ducted in. You could probably minimize this with some sort of thermal coating though.... Some before and after HP and TQ numbers would be nice....

MachSchnell

As for the block off wall for behind the headlight area...I've done this successfully for a similarly positioned filter on my Nissan 240sx out of a material called Alucabond (2 pieces of aluminum sandwiching a rubber layer) which has worked wonderfully...as soon as I have the moolah for the stage II kit, I'll be working out that route...I've done enough research and tried a few different methods for the prior isolation box that I feel pretty confident I can do this effectively if people can wait for my funds to come around enough to get the MAP stg II kit...perhaps 3 months or so if I'm lucky and nothing else breaks on the car (knock on wood)...if people are interested, let me know and I'll see about getting a prototype together first, then having it done at a shop for convenience if the numbers are there.

Mark-87-951

Im curious, are there any flow number comparing the stock airbox to K&N cone filter in a 951? The guy that worked on my car thought the stock set-up was pretty good and putting a K&N flat filter inside the stock air box was sufficient and you would still be getting the cold air from the wheel well.

Thanks,

Mark

Danno

"Im curious, are there any flow number comparing the stock airbox to K&N cone filter in a 951? The guy that worked on my car thought the stock set-up was pretty good and putting a K&N flat filter inside the stock air box was sufficient and you would still be getting the cold air from the wheel well."

Well, the primary restriction in the stock intake is the AFM. That's why an aftermarket drop-in K&N filter only gives about 5hp if even that (K&N claims 8-10hp). Removing the entire stock intake and going to a conical K&N makes a HUGE difference in flow. We wanted to extend this even further by getting rid of the J-pipe altogether.

"a less expensive system and one requiring the fewest modifications if you make use of the existing air inlet in behind the drivers headlight and ducting over to a slightly different version of the cold air box you designed. I would like this as it could even be made to resemble the factory air filter ... but with the performance your MAP provides."
"I would be interested in an effective cold air kit that took air from the fender - even if the hole had to be be cut bigger. "

Alright a little more background behind this idea. The first goal was to remove as much intake restriction as possible from the intake; like placing a big K&N filter directly on the turbo's inlet. We want something that would be even more free-flowing than our 4" J-pipe with linear taper. Reducing the length of that pipe to just 3" may allow for even higher flow-rates (from 12.5"). This then created the secondary goal of getting cold-air into the filter and avoiding engine-bay heat (I still want to find that post where someone actually measured temperatures from behind the radiator vs. behind the left headlight).

"Will there be a problem with motor mounts in different conditions?"

The box can be mounted to the engine itself or to the body of the car. The connection to the turbo will be a flexible hose.

"Also, would this be usable with a MAF...say, a Huntley sate III?"

Most likely not since the MAF sensors don't like to be close to the turbo's compressor-blades. A lot of people have had to build custom J-pipes/adaptors to put their MAF sensors further away from the turbo (right after the cone-filter behind the headlight). With this arrangement, you would have to mount the MAF sensor between the NACA duct and the airbox, kinda negating the free-flow gains.

"question is will water ingestion be a problem?"
"What happens when it rains (other than water falling from the sky)?"

I think placing a slightly curved plate over the K&N inside the box that's the same width as the filter will have water drain off the sides around the filter. Then little drain-holes can be placed at the bottom of the box.

" I would prefer a duct above or to the side past most bra areas."

I think most bras only extend about 1-2" onto the hood itself?

"Will we have to get our hood cut on our own? The opening looks a little small to me but I assume it is big enough for the amount of air a modified 951 needs?"

We'll have a template for you lay down and mark where to cut the hood. I suppose as long as we keep the cross-sectional area of the duct to be roughly twice the size of the turbo-inlet and throttle-body, the NACA duct size shouldn't be an issue.

" It dosen't look like anybody's intercooler pipes will work with that in there will your kit provide a set of pipes? "

Those intercooler pipes in the photos actually mimic the path of the stock pipes; dual-bends but in larger diameter. So it will also work with the stock pipes. Aftermarket pipes with a single bend won't work because they sit lower coming out of the intercooler and will hit the front of the box.

"Suprised no one has thought to ask, but it looks heavier than the plastic stock box. How much weight are we adding with this?"

Our MAP kit saves about 10-lbs of the stock intake-pieces that are removed; the AFM weighs a TON. Some of that weight will be given back with the box.

The other idea connected to this, is to connect the bypass valve directly between the intercooler-pipe and airbox. That way, the reciruclated air only has to take a single 90-degree bend instead of the three that's in the stock configuration. This will allow for quicker and higher-volume of circulated air, thus reducing the vacuum in the box and help keep the turbo spooled up between shifts. Although given the volume of this box compared to a J-pipe, the reduction in vacuum would be much less, but then again, there would be less vacuum to begin with anyway.

I've got some leads on FRP molding that looks promising. Also on injection-molded plastic as well. This may be more cost-effective than fabricating from aluminium and provide better heat-insulation as well. We'll get back to you with some hard data on power gains.

Now what if were to include a GIGANTIC hood-scoop, Mad Max style?

P.S. looks like the scoop on that Mobil-1 car is backwards for extracting engine-bay hot air...

pig4bill

Didn't the 924GT (or something like that) have a little forward-facing plastic hood scoop? Sort of what you'd expect on a Camaro from a JC Whitney catalog except on the small side.