Standalone as FIRST mod, and other questions...
04-26-2002, 04:33 PM
#16
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Oh, I forgot to add a tag line:
Chris White - 1)'86 951/Tec3 engine management/Porsche trans am pistons/SFR alum intercooler pipes/Turbonetics blow off/Accusump/Mocal oil cooler/ac delete/46mm Tial/3" stainless exhaust(SFR)no cat or muffler/Brey Krause strut bar/weltmeister bars/Leda coil overs/big red brakes/wide body conversion/Kinesis 17x10&12/Striped interior...Track car
2) '86 951/Tec3 engine management/SFR Stainless intercooler pipes/Turbonetics blow off/35mm Tial/Test pipe/Koni coil over front & HAL coil over rear/Big Reds/17" 2002 996 wheels/A bunch of stereo equip...daily driver
3) '86 951/just chips!/17" boxter wheels...wife's summer car.
Chris White - 1)'86 951/Tec3 engine management/Porsche trans am pistons/SFR alum intercooler pipes/Turbonetics blow off/Accusump/Mocal oil cooler/ac delete/46mm Tial/3" stainless exhaust(SFR)no cat or muffler/Brey Krause strut bar/weltmeister bars/Leda coil overs/big red brakes/wide body conversion/Kinesis 17x10&12/Striped interior...Track car
2) '86 951/Tec3 engine management/SFR Stainless intercooler pipes/Turbonetics blow off/35mm Tial/Test pipe/Koni coil over front & HAL coil over rear/Big Reds/17" 2002 996 wheels/A bunch of stereo equip...daily driver
3) '86 951/just chips!/17" boxter wheels...wife's summer car.
04-26-2002, 06:12 PM
#18
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Chris,
Not every standalone system requires as much hoop-jumping (different tps, different temp sender, pulley shimming,etc.) as the TEC III. The last time I looked there was already 2" hole through the firewall where the stock harness passes through. You've only got to keep a few wires from the original harness to keep your guages working. This leaves plenty of room for the new harness. If the Tec III is in so many cars that all the wrinkles have been worked out, then why are you making it sound like a giant hassle.
Not every standalone system requires as much hoop-jumping (different tps, different temp sender, pulley shimming,etc.) as the TEC III. The last time I looked there was already 2" hole through the firewall where the stock harness passes through. You've only got to keep a few wires from the original harness to keep your guages working. This leaves plenty of room for the new harness. If the Tec III is in so many cars that all the wrinkles have been worked out, then why are you making it sound like a giant hassle.
04-26-2002, 11:24 PM
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I suppose it depends on what your idea of a giant hassle is!!!
The point that I was trying to make was that the Tec3 or any other engine management system is not a ‘bolt on’ kit as it comes from the manufacturer. There is a lot of thought required to do a good clean installation. For example – the deal with the wiring harness and the stock instruments that we have been discussing. If I understand what you did/proposed correctly you are going to take the stock wiring harness out and remove just certain wires and reinstall. That sounds like a lot of work and if your wiring harness looks like most of the 10 to 15 year old harnesses I have seen then you are a brave man.
Since the Tec3 came out (actually well before that) I have been working with several other people to come up with a real ‘bolt on’ kit just for the 951. I think there are a lot of people who would be interested in a carefully thought out and fully documented kit with ALL the parts needed to install and run a Tec3 while retaining all the elements needed to be a nice daily driver.
This means that it would include all the bracket, adapters, wiring harnesses (complete and terminated) and a baseline program to get them up and running.
There are some folks that like the engineering and fabrication challenges of doing it themselves – great, I am one of those! But there are also lots of folks who are really tired of buying a great new product someone is selling for a 951 and getting a part in a box with no instructions and it doesn’t fit unless you modify it. That sucks and it is al to common.
So I guess that my answer is that yes, any engine management system is a giant hassle to install since there is not a good kit available specifically for the 951 (yet!). Some of us thrive on giant hassles some do not.
Oh yeah, the other question – the track car has a SFR stage 4 turbo.
The point that I was trying to make was that the Tec3 or any other engine management system is not a ‘bolt on’ kit as it comes from the manufacturer. There is a lot of thought required to do a good clean installation. For example – the deal with the wiring harness and the stock instruments that we have been discussing. If I understand what you did/proposed correctly you are going to take the stock wiring harness out and remove just certain wires and reinstall. That sounds like a lot of work and if your wiring harness looks like most of the 10 to 15 year old harnesses I have seen then you are a brave man.
Since the Tec3 came out (actually well before that) I have been working with several other people to come up with a real ‘bolt on’ kit just for the 951. I think there are a lot of people who would be interested in a carefully thought out and fully documented kit with ALL the parts needed to install and run a Tec3 while retaining all the elements needed to be a nice daily driver.
This means that it would include all the bracket, adapters, wiring harnesses (complete and terminated) and a baseline program to get them up and running.
There are some folks that like the engineering and fabrication challenges of doing it themselves – great, I am one of those! But there are also lots of folks who are really tired of buying a great new product someone is selling for a 951 and getting a part in a box with no instructions and it doesn’t fit unless you modify it. That sucks and it is al to common.
So I guess that my answer is that yes, any engine management system is a giant hassle to install since there is not a good kit available specifically for the 951 (yet!). Some of us thrive on giant hassles some do not.
Oh yeah, the other question – the track car has a SFR stage 4 turbo.
04-27-2002, 01:49 AM
#21
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I agree with Russ that an ECU doesn't need to be as much of a pain as the TEC3 to install. Many ECUs work fine with our existing Bosch sensors so you don't have to chuck them in the trash and mount new GM style ones. Also most (all ?) others don't require you to use their ignition system as well. Many of the things you listed - sensors, covering up the distributor, mounting the coils - are not required on other systems. This is one thing that is keeping me away from the TEC3.
This being said - I still think people's biggest stumbling block is the starting maps not installation headaches. At least it is for me.
--Brian Morris
89 951
This being said - I still think people's biggest stumbling block is the starting maps not installation headaches. At least it is for me.
--Brian Morris
89 951
04-27-2002, 09:39 AM
#22
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Look at it this way on the sensors issue. How many times to do read about people needing this or that sensor and it usually is at the worst time. It's late, Saturday or Sunday and your friendly local P car spot is closed. Well guess what, if I need a throttle position switch for the Tec3 I can go to the local Pepboys and get one.
As to the coil packs, the Tec3 units are a lot better than what Porsche gave us. Those are old units. Just like the wires Chris states he has taken out. BTW, I did the same. Almost forgot I did keep the brake light wires.
The install is time consuming and if someone like Chris comes up with a well thought out kit you should jump on it. I twould save a lot of time and head scratching.
Chris has helped me with my initial start up and he was invaluable.
And to that end I drove the car down the street last night for the first time. Started and idled like a stock car <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Alan
As to the coil packs, the Tec3 units are a lot better than what Porsche gave us. Those are old units. Just like the wires Chris states he has taken out. BTW, I did the same. Almost forgot I did keep the brake light wires.
The install is time consuming and if someone like Chris comes up with a well thought out kit you should jump on it. I twould save a lot of time and head scratching.
Chris has helped me with my initial start up and he was invaluable.
And to that end I drove the car down the street last night for the first time. Started and idled like a stock car <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Alan
04-27-2002, 12:08 PM
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Chris,
Don't get me wrong. I think sorting out a thorough/complete installation kit for a 951 is an excellent and commendable thing. I think standalones "rock"(to quote rage) and if you can make it easier for folks to do it, more power to you. I guess I was taking issue with portraying The TEC III as the best choice because it's sorted out (easiest) and then saying it's not sorted out (not easy). By the way, I'd kill for your track car.
Cheers <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Don't get me wrong. I think sorting out a thorough/complete installation kit for a 951 is an excellent and commendable thing. I think standalones "rock"(to quote rage) and if you can make it easier for folks to do it, more power to you. I guess I was taking issue with portraying The TEC III as the best choice because it's sorted out (easiest) and then saying it's not sorted out (not easy). By the way, I'd kill for your track car.
Cheers <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
04-27-2002, 08:07 PM
#24
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Hey, no offense taken! I am not saying that the Tec3 is the greatest thing out there. These basic products (tec series) have been around for a while and a lot of track folks have figured out how to tune it As I mentioned before being on the leading edge of product development can sound pretty cool but it is a lot of work!
There are two very distinct parts of an engine management project – installing it and getting it to run. The Tec series has a lot of background and good tech support to get it tuned and running and that is a great feature in my book. The installation does require a bunch of fabricating but I’ll take that over an easy installation with a ‘tune from scratch’ set up! That, of course, is just personal preference!
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
There are two very distinct parts of an engine management project – installing it and getting it to run. The Tec series has a lot of background and good tech support to get it tuned and running and that is a great feature in my book. The installation does require a bunch of fabricating but I’ll take that over an easy installation with a ‘tune from scratch’ set up! That, of course, is just personal preference!
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
04-27-2002, 08:21 PM
#25
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Hello all,
<a href="http://www.clewett.com/products/emsys.htm#indivTB" target="_blank">This</a> company has a TEC-3 installation kit for 944s, but doesn't specify Turbos. I have no affiliation, nor have I ever talked to anyone at Clewett, just passing the info. At the bottom of the page it has many different harness options . . .
Everyone who's interested should check out <a href="http://www.clewett.com/944flier.pdf" target="_blank">this PDF file</a>
Chris
<a href="http://www.clewett.com/products/emsys.htm#indivTB" target="_blank">This</a> company has a TEC-3 installation kit for 944s, but doesn't specify Turbos. I have no affiliation, nor have I ever talked to anyone at Clewett, just passing the info. At the bottom of the page it has many different harness options . . .
Everyone who's interested should check out <a href="http://www.clewett.com/944flier.pdf" target="_blank">this PDF file</a>
Chris